JSA Backdating Woes

tng86

Hi all,

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum! And, apologies for the essay I'm about to write - I'd just like to know where I go next or what I can do - or, what I can expect.

I started a new claim for JSA online on 12/12/13. I heard nothing from them before Christmas week so decided I'd give them a ring after Christmas, assuming there'd been some sort of December backlog.

So, on the 3/01/14 I called the JSA helpline and explained I'd heard nothing. The lady I spoke to explained that I was sent a text with a 'new claim' appointment date and time and that I should've attended on 17/12/13. I said that I'd never received a text (which I didn't) and that I'd have attended if I'd known about the appointment (which I would have). She advised that she'd make a new appointment with me over the phone (for which I'd receive a text to confirm) and that my claim would be backdated to 12/12/13.

I attended my new claim appt. on 08/01/14 (I didn't receive that confirmation text) and explained all of the above to the lady I spoke to on the front desk and also the lady who dealt with my new claim. I was assured that all the paperwork would be done and that I would receive my benefit from the 12/12/13. My sign on day happened to be the next day so I went along again and that's the first time I met my actual advisor. I, again, explained the situation and the advisor told me it'd been sorted and that I should receive my backdated payment along with my first payment or, at the very latest, with my first 'full payment'.

So, a couple of weeks later (coming up to my second sign on appt.) I still hadn't received any backdated payment yet had received both my initial and first full payments. After receiving my allowance letter, stating how much I would get etc., and seeing that my claim would start from 03/01/14, I decided to chase this backdated payment. I called my main benefit centre to do this.

I spoke to various people and the last one I spoke to advised that there was no sign of any back date claim on the system. No forms or paperwork had been filled out by anyone and he advised that I would need to pop to my local JCP and fill in a JSA5 form. I did what he said and explained the whole situation to the guy on the front desk, then again to the lady I'd actually had my new claim appt. with. She said that, although I'd filled out the form, I needn't have as it was their fault and not mine. She would complete the paperwork and send it off. The form was sent to the main centre almost one week later :doh:

I called every couple of days to check on the progress of this backdate claim and was eventually told it had been disallowed because it didn't meet section 19 regs. I wasn't told what these regs were just that I would need to do an appeal letter, labelled mandatory reconsideration, and send that to my benefit centre. So, I did. I sent it special delivery so it would get there quickly and hoped that, now I'd explained the situation in more detail, it would go in my favour.

I learned yesterday that the claim had been disallowed again. I was told it had been disallowed and referred back to my local JCP as they would need to give the decision?! I called the JCP, they had no idea what I was on about. To summarise, I called six different numbers/people yesterday and not one of those people knew what had happened, why and how it could solved. I was being told by the benefit centre that the 'treat as made' date needed to be changed by the JCP under their 'good cause process' but, I was being told by the JCP, there isn't such a thing as a 'good cause process' and that they have no power to change anything :wall:
The JCP have said I need to appeal and the benefit centre say I can't appeal because there's been no actual decision made and there's no notice.

My advisor called me and told me to just go in today and he'd sort it.

I went in today and he'd ticked a bx on a CMS5(?) form and I had to hand write an appeal to state why I wanted the decision overturned.

I've done all of that and my advisor assures me that those forms and documents will reach the benefit centre on Thursday but, after all of the to-ing and fro-ing, I have no confidence that this is ever going anywhere.

Has anyone else been in this situation? Or can anyone shed some light as to what should actually be happening? Is so frustrating because I'm the go between. The benefit centre and JCP aren't communicating directly, they're only doing it through me. I find it impossible to believe that they can't sort this out between themselves. No one seems to know what's going on. I'm receiving no communication, the only communication I've ever received from them is the letter stating my claim had been awarded, so I'm left to do chasing.

I just don't know what to do. If anyone can offer any advice, I'd be grateful!

Thanks in advance!

busy_mom_2

Th eprocess for backdating is...
Fill in a JSA5 which a copy goes to LMDMA to look at actively seeking and availability, once a decision is made LMDMA will notify BDC of the decision. The BDC will also look at good cause to establish if they will pay. As long as both agree then you get paid, if one or the other doesnt then you dont!

I'm sorry the process is frustrationg, long winded and the three parties do not communicate well as the process doesnt allow for it.
you need to know whic part is falling down in order to appeal as what exactly are you appealing gainst? is it good cause or the avail and actively seeking part?

tng86

I'm appealing against the original decision to disallow the backdated payment for the period of 12/12/13 (when I made the claim online) to 02/01/14 (the day before they're saying I claimed).

If I'd received the original text message, stating the date and time of my first appt., I'd have gone along and I'd have been paid from 12/12. Because I didn't receive that text, I am only being paid from 03/01.

I was available and actively seeking work during that time. I wasn't using UJM at that time (not properly with the logging in etc, because I wasn't aware of how to use it properly, until my new claim appt.)

I'm sorry, I don't know what LMDMA means?! Or BDC?!

busy_mom_2

tng86 wrote: »

I'm appealing against the original decision to disallow the backdated payment for the period of 12/12/13 (when I made the claim online) to 02/01/14 (the day before they're saying I claimed).

If I'd received the original text message, stating the date and time of my first appt., I'd have gone along and I'd have been paid from 12/12. Because I didn't receive that text, I am only being paid from 03/01.

I was available and actively seeking work during that time. I wasn't using UJM at that time (not properly with the logging in etc, because I wasn't aware of how to use it properly, until my new claim appt.)

I'm sorry, I don't know what LMDMA means?! Or BDC?!

Sorry, get lost in jargon.

LMDMA labour market decision maker, they are responsibile for deciding if you meet the law in terms of being available for work, actively seeking work and meeting any other requirements for JSA. All doubts are referred to them.

BDC stands for benefit delivery centre, the are the ones who decide if you have an underlying entitlment to a benefit and will pay accordingly.

The LMDMA will decide one part of your backdating the BDc will decide the other, have you had any decision back form either party? in otherwise have JCP sent all th paperwork to corect people amd have had all the decisions back?

tng86

busy_mom wrote: »

Sorry, get lost in jargon.

LMDMA labour market decision maker, they are responsibile for deciding if you meet the law in terms of being available for work, actively seeking work and meeting any other requirements for JSA. All doubts are referred to them.

BDC stands for benefit centre, the are the ones who decide if you have an underlying entitlment to a benefit and will pay accordingly.

The LMDMA will decide one part of your backdating the BDc will decide the other, have you had any decision back form either party? in otherwise have JCP sent all th paperwork to corect people amd have had all the decisions back?

Ah thank you I get a bit confused!

The only decision I have had so far is that the original claim has been disallowed. I have done a Mandatory Reconsideration which, as far as I have been told, has been disallowed by a decision maker but referred to my local JCP for a decision. But, I've also been told it has not yet been disallowed.

Today, my advisor filled in a CMS5 form and ticked the 'straightforward' box and assured me this would be sent, with my appeal statement, to the Benefit Centre tomorrow (will arrive there Thursday).

However, the Benefit Centre told me yesterday, over the phone, that the JCP had to 'amend the treat as made date'. There was no tal of that from the JCP today.

It would just be so much easier if the benefit centre could call JCP for them to sort it out between them. Instead, I'm meant to remember all of this info, from one call/visit to the next, and having to relay it all to them.

Everything I'm being told by one office is a complete contradiction of what I'm told by the next. I just feel it's going to be impossible to get this awarded but there's no real reason for it to be.

busy_mom_2

have they told who exactly has disallowed?

If the adviser can see all ok when they take your new claim they can send straight to the BDC therefore there is no disallowance as long as the adviser amended the date in the first place!

tng86

Exactly, this should've been done on my new claim appt. I was told it had been, obviously now I know it hadn't been.

I did a JSA5 form weeks after my new claim, that's what's been disallowed due to not meeting regulation 19 standards or something.

My Mandatory Reconsideration has been made and I have now been told it's been disallowed and referred back to the JCP to amend the treat as made date. But, saying that, no one knows why or who by. I'm being given conflicting information and because both offices refuse to speak to each other directly, no one will ever know.

busy_mom_2

tng86 wrote: »

Exactly, this should've been done on my new claim appt. I was told it had been, obviously now I know it hadn't been.

I did a JSA5 form weeks after my new claim, that's what's been disallowed due to not meeting regulation 19 standards or something.

My Mandatory Reconsideration has been made and I have now been told it's been disallowed and referred back to the JCP to amend the treat as made date. But, saying that, no one knows why or who by. I'm being given conflicting information and because both offices refuse to speak to each other directly, no one will ever know.

If you did a JSA5 then its been sent to LMDMA, sounds like they have disallowed so even if they change the TAM then BDC cannot pay you. Ask for a detailed call back from an LMDMA decision maker as to why you have been disallowed.
This is why it makes no difference if JCP do anuthing, its between LMDMA and the BDC, isn't the whole process rather pants, I sympathise with you. Good luck.

tng86

So I've done all of this for nothing?! I was afraid of that!
Thing is, if this had all been done at my new claim appointment, without the JSA5 form (as it should've been as it wasn't my fault) this wouldn't even be an issue at the moment.

It's a complete and utter shambles! I don't think I can explain how frustrated I am without swearing!

Thanks so much for your advice, I'll wait until my next signing appointment and if I've heard nothing, I'll definitely ask to speak to a LMDMA Decision Maker! I've been advised to also complain to my local MP.

I know it's only a few weeks of money but it's the principle. Someone hasn't done their job properly and I'm made to suffer because of it. If it was me owing money to them, I'm sure they'd be doing a lot more!!

Thanks again!!

Mersey_2

tng86 - I would definitely complete a GL24 Appeal form. Sadly some JobCentres and BDCs are known for precisely this sort of error.

It is also worth sending a written complaint to the Manager of your JCP or the Area Manager of the district/county area if you have already complained to the manager. Delay, error, misinfomation, failure to reply to correspondence are all forms of maladministration for which the DWP pays Special Payments, ie usually £50 or £100. NB The DWP complaint process is entirely separate from your Appeal which will be determined by an independent district judge.

missapril75

Technicalities aside, this all stems from not receiving a text.

I have no mobile phone...never had one. How reliable are they for texts?

Does anyone know....what are the legal technicalities as to whether the sending of a text constitutes being informed of an appointment?

In the same way receipt of an email can be requested by the sender, can this happen with a text?

To those (unfortunate enough to be) working in the system, would an appeal against both issues work?

I'm thinking if something comes back saying it's not appropriate, then that at least indicates the other one is.

And maybe it would prompt better communication between the other parties.

In my day, appeals officers would do all they could to get a decision that they believed was wrong reversed so as to avoid wasting everyone's time.