UK Car Park Management Ticket - Private Land

mr_scola

Hi all,

Massive newbie here - I've tried to read through all of the FAQ's but haven’t found an answer to what I was looking for :undecided

I received a parking ticket from CPM while parked on private land. I was visiting a friend who lives in an apartment building, and I parked my car in the visitor’s bay. I went up to his to get a visitors bay permit, but when I came back, I had a ticket!! £60 or £100 for being late.

I appealed to CPM stating that I had a permit and I felt I hadn’t done anything wrong.

They came back stating that I had left my car for 12 minutes without a permit, and that the grace period is 5 minutes.

I have read through a tonne of forums and hear a variety of things, but my question is this: Although, yes, I did take my time getting the permit (I've been there hundreds of times and never even seen a warden), surely 5 minutes to get into the building from the car park and back is not that long?! Does anyone know of anyone that has taken longer and successfully appealed?

Thanks so much,
Harry

Guys_Dad

Irrelevant.

PPCs have fluid t&c and need people to pay their charges to keep in business.

Please read the NEWBIES sticky thread, forget your circumstances, and get with the programme!

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

Put another way, virtually all parking companies rely on denying as many claims - they feel no need to be honest or caring, therefore forget about reasoned discussion and apply the system which is based on legalities that the parking people are not interested in complying with because it will cost them money.

4consumerrights

mr_scola wrote: »

Hi all,

I received a parking ticket from CPM while parked on private land. I was visiting a friend who lives in an apartment building, and I parked my car in the visitor’s bay. I went up to his to get a visitors bay permit, but when I came back, I had a ticket!! £60 or £100 for being late.

I appealed to CPM stating that I had a permit and I felt I hadn’t done anything wrong.

They came back stating that I had left my car for 12 minutes without a permit, and that the grace period is 5 minutes.

Oh dear - did you appeal following a windscreen ticket here then?
The advice is to wait until the NtK arrived so looks as though you may have appealed to early.


When they refused the appeal - did they supply a POPLA code - this is a 10 digit number - you need this to write your POPLA appeal.

Please confirm if you've got a POPLA code or not?

Coupon-mad

Not only that, UKCPM are the ones who use a 'contractual' wording on the signs (not actually true though) but by contrast the words 'breach of terms' & 'contravention' are on the NTK (and lesnmandy lost at POPLA when the Assessor didn't realise that, even though I had pointed it out in the appeal.

We need to see the sign please, and a pic of the PCN seeing as you didn't wait for the Notice to keeper like we advice normally. We need to see what the sign says and what the PCN says please (both sides, all small print but not your car nor location details).

Have you got a POPLA code and when? Please check it is in date, using the link for checking POPLA codes which is in the 'NEWBIES read this first' thread.

Please don't fire off any old POPLA appeal nor a generic one about no GPEOL (see the NEWBIES thread for acronyms). In your case you would be best to read the threads by 'lesnmandy' and 'kennethwilliams101' and then sit back for a moment, compare the words of both Assessors and wonder why lesnmandy's POPLA Assessor fell for it! And by contrast, marvel as the insight of the other Assessor in the case posted by kennethwilliams101.

Once you have searched & read those two threads & the sticky thread and learnt a bit about POPLA appeals, come back and we will help you word it without ambiguity so it slaps the Assessor in the face that you should win the appeal. Do check your deadline first though using the POPLA tool linked in the NEWBIES thread. You must NOT run out of time.

mr_scola

Thanks for getting back to me everyone!!

4consumerrights wrote: »

Oh dear - did you appeal following a windscreen ticket here then?
The advice is to wait until the NtK arrived so looks as though you may have appealed to early.

When they refused the appeal - did they supply a POPLA code - this is a 10 digit number - you need this to write your POPLA appeal.

Please confirm if you've got a POPLA code or not?

Yes I do have a POPLA code. I have it at work so will post it on here ASAP tomorrow.
I guess it was a bit foolish of me to think that they would cancel the parking ticket, but I didn't look into the appealing process properly until they came back to me declining my appeal!
I have until the 4th to appeal to POPLA so hopefully this is enough time.


"Please don't fire off any old POPLA appeal nor a generic one about no GPEOL (see the NEWBIES thread for acronyms). In your case you would be best to read the threads by 'lesnmandy' and 'kennethwilliams101' and then sit back for a moment, compare the words of both Assessors and wonder why lesnmandy's POPLA Assessor fell for it! And by contrast, marvel as the insight of the other Assessor in the case posted by kennethwilliams101."....

....I will do this when I get into work tomorrow and hopefully it gives me a better insight.

As for uploading the pictures, it says I'm not allowed to post links :undecided

Thanks for the help!

mr_scola

http: //i770. photobucket. com/albums/xx345/scola9/2014-01-26170056_zps61c2a2f1. jpg
http: //i770. photobucket. com/albums/xx345/scola9/2014-02-25214604_zps450eb130. jpg
http: //i770. photobucket. com/albums/xx345/scola9/2014-02-25214702_zpseecaec68. jpg

mr_scola

Sign says:
PRIVATE PROPERTY
enforcement in operation 24hrs. Unauthorised parking may result in your vehicle receiving a parking charge notice. The following restrictions apply.

Permits must be clearly displayed in windscreen at all times.
No parking outside of a designated area/parking bay

TERMS OF PARKING WITHOUT PERMISSION
You do so at your own risk to property and personal injury and you are contractually agreeing to pay a parking charge fee.

THE FOLLOWING FEES APPLY
Parking charge notice..... £100 per day
Or the reduced sum of £60 if payment is made within 14 days

You will incur additional charges resulting from further action being taken against you if the fee remains unpaid

Coupon-mad

I have until the 4th to appeal to POPLA so hopefully this is enough time.

Sorry to ask but, are you CERTAIN - do you mean you checked your code expiry date in the NEWBIES thread, link to the ParkingCowboys' POPLA code checker?


Your pics are here so we can all have a look now:


Sign:
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx345/scola9/2014-01-26170056_zps61c2a2f1.jpg


PCN:
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx345/scola9/2014-02-25214702_zpseecaec68.jpg


http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx345/scola9/2014-02-25214604_zps450eb130.jpg


And as suspected the sign pretends to be a 'contractual fee to park' per day and yet that cannot be the case for something described as 'unauthorised' parking. And the PCN says it is a charge issued for 'breach of terms' because it calls it a 'contravention' and so this needs to be a case of a PPC showing a GPEOL (see the NEWBIES sticky for full explanation of acronyms and everything else!). BE CAREFUL with the OPLA appeal - don't submit it too hastily when you draft it. We can get this right I am certain as we learnt from lesnmandy's thread. You do need to read it when you get a mo and the older POPLA appeal case by kennethwilliams101 as well (search for them as posters and view their threads).

Does the rejection letter say that the car was parked 'in breach' or 'failing to display' or similar words? Does it mention a VAT number on the letter or offer a VAT invoice?

mr_scola

I just checked on POPLA...

Code summary
Issuing operator: UK Car Park Management Ltd (Code: 966)
Date code generated: Tue Feb 18 2014
Code sequence number: 560
Deadline information
Your appeal deadline is Tue Mar 18 2014
You have 21 days remaining for your appeal to reach POPLA

After the 4th, my fine goes from £60 to £100 with UKCPM


Here are 2 links to pictures of my letter:

http: //i770. photobucket. com/albums/xx345/scola9/page1_zps2baf3042. png

http: //i770. photobucket. com/albums/xx345/scola9/page2_zps0b924ea6. png

It states that I have "breached parking restrictions" but doesn't mention anything to do with VAT.


I will read through the cases that you have pointed out for me Coupon-mad during my lunch break.

Thanks

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

mr_scola wrote: »

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx345/scola9/page1_zps2baf3042.png

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx345/scola9/page2_zps0b924ea6.png

Thanks

There you go. Clearly a "breach" letter.

For what it is worth, they acknowledge that they are claiming that the only breach was non-display, so the "no loss" argument is trivial.