Parkingfine draft letter

Cheeseboard12

Hi
Someone I know has received a fine in a permit car park. They live in the block of flats that the car park serves and have a permit, they simply forgot to change it over to a new car (so it wasn't displayed).

VCS is the agent. They attached a ticket to the window, which we ignored. They have now come back having been to the DVLA for owner details. I've adapted a letter that was on a previous thread (sorry, I can't give credit as I can't recall who originally wrote it).


The ticket was issued on 4th October. They sent a notice to keeper on 31st Jan. Am I right in thinking that this was therefore not between day 29 and 56 as per the POFA?


Basically I think I've got everything I need (as per the advice in the newbies thread) but I just wanted to check I was along the right lines with the approach and letter (see below). I'm happy to provide any more info you may need to give accurate advice on the letter etc:


PROPOSED LETTER.


Your ref: xxxxxxx


Dear Sir/Madam,
FORMAL APPEAL TO NOTICE TO KEEPER, UNDER THE POFA 2012

This is my appeal.

I am the registered keeper of the car mentioned in your Notice to Keeper that was dated 31/01/2014. I was surprised to see you are demanding £100 from me as the keeper, when of course you have missed the deadline to establish 'keeper liability' under POFA 2012.

Your Notice alleges an incident on 04/10/13 and if you had wanted to establish keeper liability under the POFA 2012 you were duty bound under the Act, to ensure that a compliant Notice to Keeper was served between day 29 and day 56. Clearly, to send the Notice in the post almost four month, later is too late for your purposes.

So my appeal is based on these facts:

- your NTK arrived too late so I am not liable (the driver will not be divulged to you and you have no powers to insist that I do so).

- your NTK wording is not compliant with paragraph 8 of the POFA 2012. You are more than welcome to check the Act and confirm this yourself.

- the car is covered by a permit scheme. There is no other ‘pay and display’ arrangement for the car part and therefore there was no loss or damage caused by the parking event. Under the BPA CoP, a PCN for 'breach of terms' (as you allege) must only be a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- the only contract to park is with the landowner and all payments are up to date. VCS cannot allege there is another 'contract' by somehow re-offering spaces in the permit holder car park on different, punitive terms than those already offered and accepted between the landowner and the permit-holder (and there is no charge for permits).

- VCS is a mere agent who does not own the land, so you have no standing to make any contracts with drivers nor to pursue these charges in your name. If you allege you do, then you will need to show your landowner/client contract to POPLA and me at the second stage appeal.

I invite you to cancel this charge since you can see that you have no cause to pursue it now that I have pointed out the flaws. As there exists only a flawed/late Notice to Keeper, I am not liable in law. But under the BPA CoP, clause 22.14, you must consider appeals from registered keepers because they are entitled to appeal to POPLA.

So if after careful consideration you decide to reject this appeal, you must send me a POPLA code without further ado, as was reminded to the BPA in the recent POPLA Newsletter (Nov 2013). Or you can confirm that the charge is cancelled.

yours,


REGISTERED KEEPER'S NAME

bod1467

That's a good first appeal.

You could add the standard paragraph (see NEWBIES thread) regarding charging them for your time and costs should they reject your appeal and then lose at POPLA.

(Otherwise known as a Personal Costs Notification)

Redx

1) its not a fine , its a parking charge invoice , so the title header and initial post is incorrect

2) the appeal looks good but has at least one typo

for the car part

park

Cheeseboard12

Thanks both for the replies. Sorry about the title error, you're right. Also, thanks for identifying the spelling error, I'll update that.

On a related point, the land is owned by a freeholder that employs VCS. However, leasehold purchase states that you get one space per flat as part of the purchase of your property (it's was stated that way in the documents that formed the contract to purchase the flat). Does that agreement even give the freeholder the right to issue tickets in the first place, give that they essentially sold the right to lease the space to the person owning the flat?

spacey2012

I add/ would state that you are serving "Legal notice from one working day of postmark that the registered keeper informs you that keeper liability has not been established and therefore the keeper serves legal notice they are discharged from keeper liability"
Copy the letter, obtain a certificate of postage.

Coupon-mad

Cheeseboard12 wrote: »

Thanks both for the replies. Sorry about the title error, you're right. Also, thanks for identifying the spelling error, I'll update that.

On a related point, the land is owned by a freeholder that employs VCS. However, leasehold purchase states that you get one space per flat as part of the purchase of your property (it's was stated that way in the documents that formed the contract to purchase the flat). Does that agreement even give the freeholder the right to issue tickets in the first place, give that they essentially sold the right to lease the space to the person owning the flat?

You own the leasehold title to a specific space and it's the one where the ticket was issued? The Roger Davey v UKPC trespass case springs to mind:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

and it made me think of this letter I wrote in post #30 for 'tospig' to send to tell everyone connected to UKPC, managing agents & all, to do one!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4777418

As leasehold owner of a flat and parking space you DO NOT have to allow a third party to touch your car IMHO and you need to inform the freeholder that no scumbag PPC - or any agent - is to set foot on your leasehold space and you hereby opt out of any implied consent for permits to be shown in your owned bay. This should be put in writing to the freeholder, written as politely as possible at first I think, asking why a PPC is trespassing (as in Davey v UKPC, link it for them) when they can surely only cover the 'common areas' and not the privately owned bays assigned strictly to the leaseholder. Quote terms from your leasehold deeds such as your right to 'peaceful enjoyment' and the right to the assigned parking bay.

The poster here called 'The Deep' might be able to help you to formulate a letter as you are a leasehold owner - but read my version too and be robust about the matter. Why should you display a permit in your own space?! You could add something to that challenge letter which pre-warns the PPC that this is considered trespass and that any implied consent for their operatives to enter that space is immediately withdrawn and no permits are required as YOU are the leasehold owner.

Cheeseboard12

I'm in the process of establishing the exact leasehold position on the space with the person that received the ticket and lives there (it's not me). However, I'm considering updating the letter with the suggestion by spacey2012 and progressing down that route for now to get it moving.

The owner of the leasehold has just informed me that a group of fellow leaseholders are getting together to sue the freeholder on the car parking situation. That's the extent of my knowledge of it right at this moment though, unfortunately.

Coupon-mad

Cheeseboard12 wrote: »

I'm in the process of establishing the exact leasehold position on the space with the person that received the ticket and lives there (it's not me). However, I'm considering updating the letter with the suggestion by spacey2012 and progressing down that route for now to get it moving.

The owner of the leasehold has just informed me that a group of fellow leaseholders are getting together to sue the freeholder on the car parking situation. That's the extent of my knowledge of it right at this moment though, unfortunately.

Wow - keep us informed, sounds like a plan that 'The Deep' would like to hear about as well as the rest of us!

Cheeseboard12

I'll keep you updated. It seems to be just an idea at the moment but it was a letter from other leasheolders suggesting they will sue as the freeholder doesn't have the right to enter into a contract on the car parking without consulting the leaseholder.
I'm trying to get hold of a copy. Once I do I'll share the details.


For now, I'm going to get the registered keeper to send the appeal letter above with the suggested amends to get that moving.

The_Deep

I have just seen this thread. The more I read, the more I believe that the PPCs are heading for a massive comeuppance ticketing underlease holders and their tenants thusly.

I wish you well in your endeavours OP. May I suggest that you leaflet everyone in the building suggesting that if they are ticketed they pay us a visit.

Sparsholt

I was parked in my parking bay ( I own the flat and allocated parking bay under leasehold NOT Freehold and had previously rented my property but moved into the flat on 27th Feb. previous Tenants gave me a parking permit to put in my car) and removed the permit to take up to my flat to leave it with a note to my daughter who would be flat sitting while I went on holiday. I then went back down to move my car and in that short period of time received a ticket (observed time of 5 minutes on the ticket). I was the driver but not the registered keeper of the car (my husband is the registered keeper but the car is going back to Fords on Thursday clearing the loan and we get a new car). I have been reading so many threads on the site and my 14 days to appeal as the driver will be up soon. Should I wait until they do the DVLA check and see if they write to my husband? We haven't changed our address yet with DVLA as changing car or will they write to Fords? Would I as the driver and Leasehold owner of flat and car park bay fair better than my husband who is not the owner of the flat and parking bay?


I did email the Management Company to request their help to waive the charge, they said they couldn't help and put me onto their contact at UK Car Park Management. I emailed her and she said she could not help as she is in sales and I would have to appeal as stated on the back of the notice. After reading through the many threads on this site I then emailed the Management Company who I believe have instructed this car park management firm for confirmation as to who owns the parking bay and for a copy of the contract with UK Car Park Management. He stated that Admirals Wharf Ltd are the Freeholders but no address and could not provide a copy of the contract. Interestingly I am swopping car parking bays with another flat owner and am still waiting for the parking permit.


Any help will be gratefully received.
Thank you