Parking Charge Notice – 'Appeal' Letter

Spring_Heeled_Jack

Hello everyone,

I have spent the last day or so reading this excellent forum and its resources as requested in the sticky 'newbies' thread, and have managed to draft a soft appeal letter for a Parking Charge Notice I received based on these resources.

I know you guys must be busy with all the requests for information you receive, so I wanted to avoid posting about my case if possible, but I'm just a little apprehensive about my additional reasons for contesting the invoice (i.e. those that relate to the specific circumstances of the unnamed driver in my case, rather than the universal ones used on most soft appeal letters). Is there a possibility that I might inadvertently give them evidence that they could use against me and the driver (whoever that is) in court?

If I posted the reasons below (with dates, locations, etc. stripped out) for you guys to check does that break any forum rules or put me in a weaker position? I've noticed that most if not all of the soft appeal examples posted have been successful ones, so I'm thinking that maybe this isn't allowed.

I've also got a bit confused about whether to refer to my soft appeal letter as an 'appeal' or simply a 'challenge'. Does this matter (i.e. am I accepting the legitimacy of their invoice by saying that I'm appealing it)?

Sorry if this information is available elsewhere on the forum, I've searched for some relevant terms and believe I've read all that I should have before posting. Thanks in advance.

Redx

so you have read this ? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

and we assume you wish to appeal against a PCN from a PPC and do not wish to imply who was driving or their details (which is the correct thing to do) ?

so use the following template and add a point 4) if you have an extra submission to make , like mitigation, but write as THE DRIVER DID THIS etc , as a third party only , do not imply their details or give anything away at this stage

Dear xxxxx

As the registered keeper of (reg) I'm in receipt of your parking invoice xxxxxx dated xxxxxx. I wish to invoke your appeals process as all liability to your company is denied on the following:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the capacity to offer contracts or to bring a claim for trespass

These points and others will be raised with POPLA should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

If you do reject the challenge and insist on taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Any communication that does not either confirm cancellation or include a POPLA verification code shall be reported to the BPA as a breach of their Code of Practice - the BPA recently issued guidance to all members to remind them of this fact. Such communication may also be deemed harassment and pursued accordingly.

Spring_Heeled_Jack

Thank you Redx for your reply, I have read and re-read that newbie thread so if I missed anything that would have answered my questions I do apologise.

I do wish to appeal against a PCN from a PPC and do not wish to imply who was driving or their details.

I have included the first point of that example letter in my own soft appeal letter, but regarding the other two:

2) Your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice

I have been back down to the car park today to look at signage but am still unsure if it complies. The ticket machine with pay and display information is located at the entrance to the car park, so you would be able to read that it was a pay and display car park when you drive in but wouldn't be able to read the small print that accompanies it.

3) You are not the landowner and do not have the capacity to offer contracts or to bring a claim for trespass

It is safe to assume that this is the case?

And, I suppose I can post these as they do not identify me in any way, but these are three of my additional submissions:

4) You did not give notice before the vehicle was removed from the relevant land after the end of the period of parking to which the notice relates by affixing it to the vehicle or handing it to a person appearing to be in charge of the vehicle (which must happen as stated in Schedule 4 paragraph 7 of the PoFA).

5) Despite the allusion to photographic evidence in your notice, the allegation that the vehicle overstayed is not supported by any credible evidence, such as VCS regulated ANPR equipment.

6) You have not provided specific details of the relevant land the car was parked on, only providing a postcode (*FIRST TWO LETTERS AND FIRST NUMBER OF POSTCODE, TOWN*). As you will know, specific details of the relevant land the car was parked on must be included on the parking charge notice, as stated in Schedule 4 paragraphs 8 and 9 of the PoFA. [*POSTCODE*] is a rather large postcode area, and I have no doubt that the vehicle spent a large portion of the day in question within this postcode.

Are the three above points all relevant? I suppose what I am asking is, can you get tripped up by just one of your reasons not standing up even though your other reasons are all valid, and if this is the case is it best to omit reasons you aren't 100% sure about?

bod1467

The reality is ... it doesn't matter whether their signage complies or not, you just believe it doesn't and it is for them to prove otherwise. (In the vast majority of cases it doesn't anyway).

Same applies regarding landowner ... very few PPCs have legal authority to offer to contract with a motorist, and fewer still have such to bring a claim for trespass.

Redx

as bod says above, we are not asking for your opinion on if points 1 and 2 and 3 are valid, you are challenging them to prove they are valid by including them because they are the ones who have to abide by the BPA CoP and contract law etc , so you challenge them to prove they have the right to do what they have done

this explains why https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4835943

so its a standard appeal letter for a reason, and the 3 key points are in there for valid legal reasons, doesnt matter if you dont understand them as you are asking them to prove they are all valid in issuing the PCN in the first place

lets assume they have no locus standi (landowner contract) , by what right do they have in bringing this PCN invoice to your letterbox ?

let us assume that there is no loss or the loss is a few pounds , by what right do they set their charges higher than the legal limit which is where the landowner is put back to a position where no loss has occurred , in other words if there is no loss why do they allege there is ? if the loss was say £5 parking fees then why issue a PCN for between £50 and £100 ?

obviously you understand the points about signage etc , but we dont even know if they are lawful or comply with the BPA CoP as many dont

you are putting them to the test, and warning them you will use these appeal points at popla and in court if necessary

Spring_Heeled_Jack

Thank you both, that's really cleared that up for me. I was just afraid of them coming back and trying to trip me up. Probably the first time I've been glad to hear that my opinion doesn't matter!

I know it must be infuriating to go over worn out points over and over with newbies like myself, so I really appreciate the time you've taken to reply.

Spring_Heeled_Jack

Hello everyone,

The parking company have now replied to my initial letter asking for further evidence on one of the points I made. They say they need this within the next 2 weeks or the full fee of £70 will be payable.

They have not given me a POPLA code, even though I asked for one. They also say I didn't lodge an appeal within the time provided, which must be because I didn't use the word 'appeal' in my letter. However, they later go on to say that they need this evidence "to further review my appeal."

Would anybody be able to advise on what to do next please? Is it safe to post details of my initial letter and their response on here with all personal information removed to make things easier to review?

And can I now start invoicing them for pencils?

Umkomaas

It might help us advise if we knew who the PPC is. But in essence you go back to them, say you have nothing further to add, you have already appealed, so their job is to either cancel the PCN or reject your appeal and forward a POPLA code.

In parallel you write letters of complaint to the BPA and the DVLA that the PPC is forcing you to 'beg' for a POPLA code, against the reminder of requirements to issue POPLA codes without further delaying tactics recently issued by both organisations and sent to PPCs by the BPA.

Send copy of your correspondence from the PPC with your complaints. Tell the PPC in you reply to them that you have complained about their tactics - and copy to them your letters of complaint to the BPA and DVLA.

Spring_Heeled_Jack

Umkomaas wrote: »

It might help us advise if we knew who the PPC is...

Thank you for this reply. I've only omitted the PPC's name up until now because I thought they might be able to search this forum and match up the details of my posts with my 'file' or whatever. Is this not something to worry about? I'll gladly name them if it would help you guys.

So I shouldn't address their call for evidence at all? I said in my initial letter that their invoice was invalid based on the fact that, amongst other things, the driver displayed a valid parking ticket for the duration of their stay. They have now asked for me to send that parking ticket to them, but I no longer have it. They didn't give the driver a windscreen ticket at the time so there was no reason to keep an old parking ticket.

There were 7 other reasons given for my challenge in my letter, but they have completely ignored these. I also already warned them that any correspondence that does not either confirm cancellation or include a POPLA code will be reported to the BPA as breach of their COP.

I presume they're trying to panic me into paying the £70 – a last throw of the dice?

bod1467

If you've already appealed, and used the template from this forum, then they already know you're getting forum help.

Naming the PPC doesn't hurt in the slightest.

And yes - it is a typical delaying tactic that PPCs have already been warned about.

Spring_Heeled_Jack

bod1467 wrote: »

If you've already appealed, and used the template from this forum, then they already know you're getting forum help.

Naming the PPC doesn't hurt in the slightest.

And yes - it is a typical delaying tactic that PPCs have already been warned about.

It's Excel Parking.