Another story i think is worth telling.

CSAworkerx

Again, happened a while ago, but it annoyed me at the time so i thought id post it.

Two things you learn working at the CSA, some nrp's ( both men and women ) just do not want to pay for their children, might seem obvious if you have a case with us, especially a non compliant case, but the sheer number of people who flat out do anything to avoid paying for a life they created is seriously just sad.

and secondly, Your not going to believe this, but the legislation can be a weapon in itself! shocking i know.

Now, take those 2 bits of info, and apply to ( in this case ) a man who just will not pay, and a pwc who is to trusting, and boom, you have a case on your hands.

This was a good few months back, but here goes. I took a call from a pwc, cleared security and could tell she was on the brink of crying already, when we take calls most of the time youve never seen the case, and while clearing security/listening to the caller, your quickly scanning all the notes on both sides to try and get the feel of the case. While doing this i checked the payment history, Very, Very sporadic, i could see this pwc hadn't had a payment since last January, then 7 months later received 6 payments, then nothing, Case was a few years old and this was happening since it was opened, bit strange.

Now the pwc asked me had any action taken place as she was told we were putting a DEO on the nrp as he failed to supply a method of collection, pretty standard, she called in about 2-3 weeks ago and had been told this, So expected the DEO to be in place or there abouts, i informed her of the notes from the nrps side, Basically the nrp had promised to clear his arrears and set up a DD, On the day he was supposed to make payment, he was unable to, Nrp said he could pay it in 7 days, by rights the caseworker could have deo'd him right there, but allowed the 7 days to pass. And he paid it, and set up a DD.

I expected the pwc to be happy with this, she was getting a lump sum ( 4-600ish ) and a DD was in place, She wasnt happy, her words were "not again" She then explained that this was her 6th time doing this, in 3 years this is how the case went down.

Opened
Assessed
Nrp paid arrears, set up DD
DD failed
DEO in place
Nrp leaves job.

months later when we find new nrp employer

Nrp clears arrears
Sets up DD
DD fails
Enforce DEO
nrp leaves job.

months later when we find new nrp employer

Nrp clears arrears
Sets up DD
DD fails
Enforce DEO
nrp leaves job.

Basically, the nrp would only ever pay anything when he knew the deo was going to be put in place, to stop that he would clear his arrears ( wasn't earning a fortune ) set up a DD, then wait 2-3 months and quit his job, So in essence the pwc was reciveing maintenance, but only about 3-5 times a year, i know this is till better than never getting a penny, but still, the legislation allows that nrp to continue this cycle, as if arrears are cleared he can set up a DD, cancel that with his bank, wait for the letter informing him od the DEO, then just find a new job, He doesnt really gain anything other than 3-4 months without paying, as he was clearing his arrears off eventually, but the day will come where we wont find his new employer, or he works cash in hand, and then this case will be nilled, pretty heartless thing to do.


While i understand the frustration the CSA can bring, Some men/women will just not pay for the kids, or make it very difficult to do so.

Alchemilla

This could be my case. Ex has not had a job for more than 18 months.

mumofronnienreggie

my ex owe what must be over 70k now between 3 of us. i'm the latest to join the pack and I recently found out that he set up his own Ltd company ( lorry driver) , so he is director of that, but it will be for the sole reason of avoiding payment or worst case scenario for him, drawing only a minimum wage and fiddling the books with how many jobs he is doing.
5 kids over 23 years and I doubt he has paid a total of £100 between them all.
I'm on the latest scheme, with them doing any collecting as I ws a DV case.. but I'm not expecting a penny.
They wont take his driving licence or passport because it will remove his only form of earning a living, its unlikely any judge would send him to prison because he is a former prison oficer and would be put at an increased risk, so I believe tht only leaves raiding his bank account.. and I havent actually heard of that happening ever.
How they sleep at night I do not know.

jjj1980

Csaworker's post sounds just how my case has been! Promises to pay that don't happen, DDs that fail on first attempt to collect, arrears cleared to avoid DEO then quitting of job.

My has is now self-employed and is just as non-compliant, if not more so as he knows DEOs cannot be used on self-employed income.

So saddening

PreludeForTimeFeelers

mumofronnienreggie wrote: »

I believe tht only leaves raiding his bank account.. and I havent actually heard of that happening ever.
How they sleep at night I do not know.

I don't know what the actual figures are, but deduction orders are actually quite common forms of enforcement now.

CSAworkerx

PreludeForTimeFeelers wrote: »

I don't know what the actual figures are, but deduction orders are actually quite common forms of enforcement now.

can also back this up, more and more common as time goes by.

HoneyNutLoop

230 lump sum deductions authorised from April to Aug 13 collecting £661,980 and 315 regular deduction orders collecting £321,085. Compared to the 141,000 deductions from earnings orders collecting £122 million in the same period, it's not quite there yet. The numbers are increasing each year though, since it began in 2009.

mumofronnienreggie

so how does one go about getting one of those enforced?
My case is relatively new and they are in the process of dragging the other cases over to join mine. It's only a matter of time before I am also in with the arrears and I will be chasing him like a dog with a bone.

HoneyNutLoop

mumofronnienreggie wrote: »

so how does one go about getting one of those enforced?
My case is relatively new and they are in the process of dragging the other cases over to join mine. It's only a matter of time before I am also in with the arrears and I will be chasing him like a dog with a bone.

Well, potentially the option may have already been explored on your NRP's other cases, but failed for one reason or another. From the statistics the CSA publish, a lot of cases are deselected at what they call the disclosures as stage. For the April to August period I cited in my previous post, 3000 cases were actually submitted for disclosure in that time, of which 1625 were then deselected. It indicates that at the end of the period 1535 disclosure requests were still ongoing. The numbers won't necessarily add up within a period, due to the time the process takes, so some of the authorised and collecting deduction orders in the period would have had their disclosure requests sent off in an earlier period.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/child-support-agency-quarterly-summary-statistics-september-2013

If/when your NRP doesn't pay, and this becomes an option in the table (I.e. they've decided a DEO won't work or they've trued and it's failed) the best information you could supply them with is details of his bank account - preferably ones that he actually uses and/or has savings in.

Whilst the CSA can get details from credit reference agencies, obviously this will only show the same information you would find on your own credit report; so no savings accounts. If you or the other parents don't know this information, and there's no information in the credit report that's of use, then this method of enforcement is out. (Although it's worth noting it doesn't necessarily rule out a third party debt order later on if a liability order is obtained, as slightly different disclosure rules apply).

This leafet gives a brief overview of all the potential options available to enforce payment: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=Nj0HU-jMIrGe7AazwoHIAg&url=http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/%40dg/%40en/%40benefits/documents/digitalasset/dg_198853.pdf&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGKymnnKEwYPoeTW8yj7BJcACoTCw&sig2=D8CE2LM6t53pOdrikYeq-w

mumofronnienreggie

Thankyou for that response 😊
I have had virtually no contact with him over the past two years so none of us would know his bank details , he has no assetts ( materially or character wise lol ) so looks like he will continue to get away with paying zilch to any of his 5 kids

mum2one

it amazes me how many lies the NRP can say and get away with it, - its past a joke I have had nothing but nightmare getting anything from my ex, when he was working the CSA made an error and never set up the direct order - so he then packed in work, he is on benefits, basically has no intention of working and every so often I presume he gets sanctioned or tries to change benefits as my magic amount of £5 per week gets stopped.......

£5 - its a pittance - esp as he's pulling in £500 pw in benefits etc for the family he took on! x