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Carney: No rate rises until wages rise
Comments
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chucknorris wrote: »Totally agree, how could I have played the 'I'm totally dedicated' card if I was prepared to leave over a few grand.
I did it twice. The first time was an eye opener because I hadn't realised that my role commanded so much more money elsewhere. I was able to pretend to be totally dedicated but argue that the role was worth more money.
The second time was harder. It's difficult to argue total dedication when regularly applying for jobs and getting offers. You also have to question whether you're working for the right employer if you're having to threaten to leave on a regular basis. There were some negotiations but they were heart hearted on both sides. My demands were declined apart from a few small concessions but the relationship was permanently damaged. Time to go.0 -
I did it twice. The first time was an eye opener because I hadn't realised that my role commanded so much more money elsewhere. I was able to pretend to be totally dedicated but argue that the role was worth more money.
The second time was harder. It's difficult to argue total dedication when regularly applying for jobs and getting offers. You also have to question whether you're working for the right employer if you're having to threaten to leave on a regular basis. There were some negotiations but they were heart hearted on both sides. My demands were declined apart from a few small concessions but the relationship was permanently damaged. Time to go.
I've usually had reasonable pay rises because they were concerned that I may consider leaving, rather than I specifically threatened to. Particularly as the last couple of places that I worked in the private sector they approached me to join them rather than I had applied. But all that is water under the bridge now as I don't particularly care if I get a pay rise or not, and as I'm in the public sector at the top of my scale, it is just as well (I have no interest in promotion onto the next scale).Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
I tend to move around a lot as I find that employers tend to value incoming skills than those already within the company. I stick around while the work is interesting/varied enough to enhance my CV and leave when I start to repeat stuff I have already done. I work in IT and being mobile is desired, rather than looked down upon - providing you don't move too often. I have a personal rule where I always stay for a minimum of 2 years, no matter what.0
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Yes. She's about half way up a band with 5 points to move up. The next band up is also a possibility with another 9 increment points within it. Realistically with some sign off of skills she might move up an increment this year.
That would be a pay rise (that's not a pay rise
) of 3.3% plus whatever the national pay review is on top.
I'm not sure what a 'normal' progression up the increments is but if 50% of staff are getting them each year it would imply an increment every two years. It would also imply that any assertion that people are sat at the top of their band receiving !!!!!! all is false.
How would you ensure it becomes truly efficient, chiefs aren't excessively rewarded and that is wasn't a gravy train?
I'd accelerate privatisation. If there are as many fat cats, and excessively paid chiefs riding the NHS gravy train as you think then it would be better to let this find it way into company profits, corporation tax, and improved healthcare.
Nice to know the W household are on the escalator.
Aren't the increments annual? If 50% are getting them then 50% aren't.
Privatisation isn't a panacea money just gets soaked elsewhere, particularly when it is underwritten by the taxpayer, or even the "individual" if you consider the USA. Any marginal efficiencies are wiped out by the need to fund a dividednd."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Nice to know the W household are on the escalator.
Aren't the increments annual? If 50% are getting them then 50% aren't.
Anyone working in the NHS is on the escalator. The increments AIUI aren't annual - they are performance and skill based. Yes you're right if 50% get one then the other 50% don't. An incremental pay rise every two years seems about right. That's based on my limited experience - others in the NHS might see it differently. Graham preferred to disappear rather than share his experience.grizzly1911 wrote: »Privatisation isn't a panacea money just gets soaked elsewhere, particularly when it is underwritten by the taxpayer, or even the "individual" if you consider the USA. Any marginal efficiencies are wiped out by the need to fund a dividednd.
Wouldn't you prefer dividends being paid into retirement funds rather than keeping the 'fat cats' on the 'gravy train'? Or do you have a preferred fat cat list?
You can say you'd prefer better efficiency with funds diverted from management to clinical care but that's one of those throwaway lines that implies something but says nothing.
I don't do ticking time bombs but there's a problem coming for healthcare in the UK. People are living longer and therefore living with multiple health issues in old age. On top of that their offspring are the fattest humans ever to live in the UK - again they present with multiple health problems. At least they'll be able to keep their parents company in hospital and make sure they don't have to drink water from vases.0 -
Anyone working in the NHS is on the escalator. The increments AIUI aren't annual - they are performance and skill based. Yes you're right if 50% get one then the other 50% don't. An incremental pay rise every two years seems about right. That's based on my limited experience - others in the NHS might see it differently. Graham preferred to disappear rather than share his experience.
My source tells me that they are annual increments. If you at grade maximum then no increments are paid and therefore not on the escalator.. Similarly if an individual is not up to scratch they can be withheld.
So 50% not being entitled to an increment is not unlikely.
Wouldn't you prefer dividends being paid into retirement funds
Don't see the point in paying over the odds through taxation or health care fees now for some investment in a future possible pension.
Cost containment is preferable.
You can say you'd prefer better efficiency with funds diverted from management to clinical care but that's one of those throwaway lines that implies something but says nothing.
Up to you how you interpret it. Seems pretty clear spend money on administration or people who actually do the work and the drugs and equipment they need. There is an interdependency between them it is question of balance and need.
I don't do ticking time bombs but there's a problem coming for healthcare in the UK. People are living longer and therefore living with multiple health issues in old age. On top of that their offspring are the fattest humans ever to live in the UK - again they present with multiple health problems. At least they'll be able to keep their parents company in hospital and make sure they don't have to drink water from vases.
People are living longer not always with good results for them, their carers or indeed the NHS as you say.
Look on the bright side if people are getting fatter chances are they won't leave so long so less long term care needs and pension/benefit support.
The old vase cliche is like saying Bob Diamond is the archetype banker. Hyperbole."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »My source tells me that they are annual increments. If you at grade maximum then no increments are paid and therefore not on the escalator.. Similarly if an individual is not up to scratch they can be withheld.
So 50% not being entitled to an increment is not unlikely.
There's always the opportunity to move up a band?
Here's the quote from the agenda for change site - score draw?As staff successfully develop their skills and knowledge, they progress in annual increments up to the maximum of their pay band, At two defined "gateway points" on each pay band, pay progression is based on them demonstrating the applied knowledge and skills for that job.grizzly1911 wrote: »Don't see the point in paying over the odds through taxation or health care fees now for some investment in a future possible pension.
Cost containment is preferable.
Agreed but how? You think the current system is a gravy train yet you defend it.grizzly1911 wrote: »Look on the bright side if people are getting fatter chances are they won't leave so long so less long term care needs and pension/benefit support.
They won't live so long but they'll get their pound of flesh out of the NHS first. Most diseases of wealth are chronic rather than acute.0 -
There's always the opportunity to move up a band?
Here's the quote from the agenda for change site - score draw?
Home advantage?
I agree that there is a chance to move up a band but in a flat pyramid structure those are limited. Agenda for change purposefully redefined roles and grades to depress roles into lower grades. New posts often being advertised in lower grades than previously or "displacing" incumbents. This is no different to re organisations in large Corporates either.
With say 6 increments before top of band even skipping through say 3 bands would still see a graduate at virtual maximum at 40.
Agreed but how? You think the current system is a gravy train yet you defend it.
I only defend the system for clinical staff because I do not really see a vastly more efficient way of negotiating pay and motivational structures, in a closed environment, for hundreds of thousands of staff.
50% of the staff don't get pay rises. Perhaps the incremental scale should be reduced to allow pay increases in parallel with inflation to all performing staff.
Adding in layers of HR staff and line managers to handle individual negotiations was the gravy train bit. Not to mention time lost, and stress induced, already in compiling KSF documentation etc. again witnessed in large Corporates at performance appraisals when the outcome is already preordained."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0
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