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Carney: No rate rises until wages rise
Comments
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Don't have a problem with them at all other than the silliness of pretending they're somehow different to pay rises.
They are not standard cost of living pay rises.
To treat these as pay rises, as I suggested, you would have to treat private sector bonuses as pay rises too, as they too are "incentives to meet higher standards" as per your words. I can't see you doing that, but are quite happy to do it when it comes to the public sector.
It's quite clear the discussion was about general pay rises in the context of an increase to keep up with inflation. You then decided to bring in contractual pay increments and pretend therefore that NHS workers were "keeping up with inflation". No, they are making their way to full and normal pay for the job they do.
You've confused the subject, purposely, and used articles to make your point which were completely one sided to the point of being almost factually wrong.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »The only way to save that £1bn would be to reduce all nurses pay for instance (for at least new staters) to £21k. This would then be standard pay for therature nurses, GP nurses, mental health nurses etc. You'd also have to freeze everyone on their current level.
Then, maybe, the same jouranlist could moan about the lack of care he got when using the NHS as fewer and fewer sign up to nursing for such low pay.
Yes Graham that's the only way to save £1bn.:T
Not sure why we need to save it anyway. I'd be happy enough to stop pretending that pay in the NHS is falling behind inflation in the way Unite suggest.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »They are not standard cost of living pay rises.
To treat these as pay rises, as I suggested, you would have to treat private sector bonuses as pay rises too, as they too are "incentives to meet higher standards" as per your words. I can't see you doing that, but are quite happy to do it when it comes to the public sector.
It's quite clear the discussion was about general pay rises in the context of an increase to keep up with inflation. You then decided to bring in contractual pay increments and pretend therefore that NHS workers were "keeping up with inflation". No, they are making their way to full and normal pay for the job they do.
You've confused the subject, purposely, and used articles to make your point which were completely one sided to the point of being almost factually wrong.
Have you ever worked in the private sector?
When you get a pay rise it might be in one 'hit' but you don't walk out and say I got 2% incremental and a 2% pay award. It's a 4% pay rise. You don't get them for nothing and you have to demonstrate why you should get one. I'd quite like to see the look on my bosses face if I talked him into a pay rise based on my increased contribution and then told him I'd need inflation on top.0 -
Maybe in the South, but certainly not in the North, and certainly not for those in the Public Sector. With our pension increase factored in this year my pay rise is a whopping 0.2%, some 1.9% of the supposed average.Isn't he slightly off message?
Wage growth could match inflation anytime soon. It certainly has the feeling of near term rather than the long long time Carney has implied so far.
He's setting us for a number of shrill threads reminding us about this promise. Less significantly it may influence people's behaviour in ways the BoE doesn't want to encourage i.e. sitting on cash and waiting for the good times.
It's about time someone from the establishment started to look at how well people outside of London and the SE are coping financially before raising rates and crippling those most affected by the financial downturn, which in the majority they had nothing to do with yet suffered the most pain for.
It must be nice to live in the bubble that is the SE and simply assume that as they have been almost recession proof, and are seeing improvements to the economy, that everyone else is enjoying those same improvements. It sadly is not the case.
It is exactly the right thing to do to ensure that any rate rises are fair and affordable for the majority of the UK, not just those in the SE bubble.[SIZE=-1]To equate judgement and wisdom with occupation is at best . . . insulting.
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Have you ever worked in the private sector?
When you get a pay rise it might be in one 'hit' but you don't walk out and say I got 2% incremental and a 2% pay award. It's a 4% pay rise. You don't get them for nothing and you have to demonstrate why you should get one. I'd quite like to see the look on my bosses face if I talked him into a pay rise based on my increased contribution and then told him I'd need inflation on top.
I have always worked in the private serctor .
How big is your employer?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
The Telegraph report reckons that 45% of NHS staff got an incremental pay rise on top of the national pay deals in 2012 at a cost of £1bn.
That would suggest it's unlikely that most of the NHS are sat at the top of their pay scales getting only 1% pay rises.
Think it actually said 55%.
A little over half not exactly most.
There will always be salary progression in a large organisation. Agreeing standard rates may well be cheaper than the cost of individual reviews and negotiations.
Love the examples given consultants, divisional managers ( are they good at setting staff against each other?).
Pretty sure incremental pay was in place long before 2004. Whitley council payscales?
The reorganisation branded Agenda for Change resulted in the down grading of many jobs and was a cost containment exercise.
The fact that pay continues to apparently rise is not surprising in such a complex structure with increasing demands placed on it and considerable staff churn.
Many of the low paid jobs have now been privatised so unsurprisingly the rump of clinical staff will also be proportionately more expensive.
They also forget to mention that a lot of the low paid"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Why not!? A pay rise is a pay rise.
Either you don't think they should be seen as pay rises because you don't understand basic economics or because you want to turn yet another thread into a Graham Devon thread.
It certainly seems to be going that way, and one of his pals has waded in with a 'my company is bigger than yours' stance. Oh well, scratch another thread.
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It's yet another lost thread.It certainly seems to be going that way, and one of his pals has waded in with a 'my company is bigger than yours' stance. Oh well, scratch another thread.
Employees get pay increases but apparently they are not pay rises according to Devon.
Some people have no shame pretending black is white.The only thing I'm surprised at is Graham's defensiveness about getting pay rises that he won't allow to be called pay rises.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »I have always worked in the private serctor .
How big is your employer?
I worked for a small company that grew to be a large company. I then left to work for another small company that, again, is on it's way to becoming a large company.
In the main I've sat in front of a boss to get a pay rise by explaining why it's justified. Sometimes there's been a blanket rise. Once I threatened to leave and got a pay rise. Another time I threatened to leave, didn't get one so left and got a pay rise somewhere else.
Point being, I have to link pay rises to performance exactly the same as the NHS. The larger the organisation the more structure there tends to be.grizzly1911 wrote: »There will always be salary progression in a large organisation. Agreeing standard rates may well be cheaper than the cost of individual reviews and negotiations.
So you've gone from implying that everyone is sat at the top of a pay grade to realising that there is salary progression.grizzly1911 wrote: »The fact that pay continues to apparently rise is not surprising in such a complex structure with increasing demands placed on it and considerable staff churn.
Well let's ignore the fact that it surprised you although you've managed to convince yourself it applied to the 'fat cats' only.
My wife is a midwife - I don't need to check with the Telegraph to see if she's had a pay rise or not. No surprise here.
The only thing I'm surprised at is Graham's defensiveness about getting pay rises that he won't allow to be called pay rises.0 -
Who hired this idiot Carney? they presented him as wonderboy, paid him a fortune and all he does is make proclamations then moves the goalposts with his new concept of "forward guidance".Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..0
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