PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd for, literally, 3 mins time difference - ** SUCCESS!!*

4consumerrights

You mean you sent the template CEL letter without understanding what this means?

Parking companies can obtain keeper details under a dual system:

Those which can pursue the registered keeper providing a they follow strict guidelines, time scales and supply certain information on the notices under POFA

The second is that the keeper details can be obtained but they can only puruse the driver if known - you really need to read the Newbie thread again and look at the requirements for invoking keeper liability under POFA (either the legislation or read the BPA COP.

CEL's notices do not invoke keeper liability as they do not conform to all the requirements - although they have issued several variances of their letters lately. If you want to upload the letter you received redacting personal info - we can confirm this for you.

boxingbantz

4consumerrights wrote: »

You mean you sent the template CEL letter without understanding what this means?

Parking companies can obtain keeper details under a dual system:

Those which can pursue the registered keeper providing a they follow strict guidelines, time scales and supply certain information on the notices under POFA

The second is that the keeper details can be obtained but they can only puruse the driver if known - you really need to read the Newbie thread again and look at the requirements for invoking keeper liability under POFA (either the legislation or read the BPA COP.

CEL's notices do not invoke keeper liability as they do not conform to all the requirements - although they have issued several variances of their letters lately. If you want to upload the letter you received redacting personal info - we can confirm this for you.

Hi.

This is what I first received from CEL:



I then sent the letter which I posted further up the thread. Was that the correct measure?

It turns out that this ISN'T a notice to keeper althought it may have said that on the envelope (maybe).

4consumerrights

That letter is their Notice to keeper/parking charge notice - PPCs call them various names and yes you did right in sending that original letter
(shame it didn't work in your case) as the notice does not comply with POFA to invoke keeper liability and they can only pursue the driver if known - why do you think they asked you again who the driver was in their rejection letter?

boxingbantz wrote: »

Received my rejection letter today, shock, offering a POPLA code etc so am going to have to through the process. They have asked me to name the driver etc within 28 blah blah.

There are several other CEL cases recently - so do a forum search and read those threads - all with the same information and letters received as you.

CEL also have not provided any photographic or documentary evidence to you that any alleged contravention took place - so I would write as registered keeper again requesting this information.

Check the rejection letter for wording and CEL do attempt contractual charges - they got a good spanking in court today - do read Bargepole's thread.

You need to do a POPLA appeal suitable for CEL - so research the forum and template guides/ read a few POPLA successes (accessed via Sticky threads at top). Please also check that the POPLA code is valid and correct - again from Parking Cowboys website checker - link in Newbie thread)

Post up your appeal for regulars to check before submitting and await the successful outcome - they quite often bottle out now with forum aided appeals.:)

peter_the_piper

Could they have made the possibility of an appeal in any smaller print considering they ignore it when they say it WILL go to a debt collector if not paid?

boxingbantz

4consumerrights wrote: »

That letter is their Notice to keeper/parking charge notice - PPCs call them various names and yes you did right in sending that original letter
(shame it didn't work in your case) as the notice does not comply with POFA to invoke keeper liability and they can only pursue the driver if known - why do you think they asked you again who the driver was in their rejection letter?



There are several other CEL cases recently - so do a forum search and read those threads - all with the same information and letters received as you.

CEL also have not provided any photographic or documentary evidence to you that any alleged contravention took place - so I would write as registered keeper again requesting this information.

Check the rejection letter for wording and CEL do attempt contractual charges - they got a good spanking in court today - do read Bargepole's thread.

You need to do a POPLA appeal suitable for CEL - so research the forum and template guides/ read a few POPLA successes (accessed via Sticky threads at top). Please also check that the POPLA code is valid and correct - again from Parking Cowboys website checker - link in Newbie thread)

Post up your appeal for regulars to check before submitting and await the successful outcome - they quite often bottle out now with forum aided appeals.:)

Thanks for you helpful reply.

Should I reply ro CEL asking for this information before I appeal? I have the rejection letter with POPLA code if this needed to be posted on here?

peter_the_piper wrote: »

Could they have made the possibility of an appeal in any smaller print considering they ignore it when they say it WILL go to a debt collector if not paid?

I am assuming this won't go a debt collector and is, bascially, scare tactics.

peter_the_piper

I know, I was just highlighting the miniscule text for appeal info as opposed to the big red type for debt collection. One would almost think they wanted to panic people into not seeing the appeal bit.

Coupon-mad

Should I reply to CEL asking for this information before I appeal?

You have a POPLA code. It is strictly timebound and the clock is already ticking. Why on earth would you waste that deadline doing anything else except draft a good POPLA appeal like all the other newbies here manage to do when they have read the sticky threads? So, what did you learn about how to win at POPLA, when you read the NEWBIES thread at the top of this forum?

Kind of surprised at all the new threads this week where no-one has read this...sigh...and I see you were first spoon-fed the link to it on 12th Feb:

Sticky: NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? EVEN AN OLD ONE? ***READ THIS FIRST*** Thankyou!

Clue - there is a hyperlink cunningly called 'How to win at POPLA' in post #3 and it includes at least two examples of POPLA appeals v CEL, written from scratch by newbies with the same info at their 'keyboard-tips' as you have here.

The_Deep

Is this breach or a contractual charge? They have just lost a court case where their contractual charge has been deemed a penalty.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=88126

boxingbantz

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You have a POPLA code. It is strictly timebound and the clock is already ticking. Why on earth would you waste that deadline doing anything else except draft a good POPLA appeal like all the other newbies here manage to do when they have read the sticky threads? So, what did you learn about how to win at POPLA, when you read the NEWBIES thread at the top of this forum?

Kind of surprised at all the new threads this week where no-one has read this...sigh...and I see you were first spoon-fed the link to it on 12th Feb:

Sticky: NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? EVEN AN OLD ONE? ***READ THIS FIRST*** Thankyou!

Clue - there is a hyperlink cunningly called 'How to win at POPLA' in post #3 and it includes at least two examples of POPLA appeals v CEL, written from scratch by newbies with the same info at their 'keyboard-tips' as you have here.

Alright mate chill out.

I have read a lot of information, and that thread, but there is a lot of info to digest.

Sorry my actions have bothered you so much...

4consumerrights

boxingbantz wrote: »

Alright mate chill out.

I have read a lot of information, and that thread, but there is a lot of info to digest.

Sorry my actions have bothered you so much...

Coupon-Mad spends hours each day helping newbies like yourself. That NEWBIE thread was compiled/amended and is updated on a regular basis to keep up with current trends by Coupon-Mad in her own time as an unpaid volunteer like the rest of the regulars.

Yes it contains a lot of information which is why you need to read it carefully several times over if necessary and we agree it may seem daunting to take it all in at once.

However the thread contains

THE MOST RELEVANT AND UPTODATE INFORMATION YOU WILL FIND ANYWHERE ON THE INTERNET INTO HOW TO TACKLE THESE CHARGES.

The information was compiled as it was impossible for forum regulars to keep repeating and typing the same info day in and day out - in an attempt to spend more time and attention with more detailed and complex cases.

Coupon Mad has been doing this for years as well and helps every poster daily - compiling individual posts and letters and she is the most dedicated and respected of all the regulars on here.

The frustration sometimes is to direct newbies to the thread in the first place. You have been directed hence this frustration.

You will need to confirm the signage here as CEL claim contractual charges at times so wording is important. They also got hammered in court and the charge deemed a penalty (appeal stage) so please do a forum search as this Judgment can be included in your POPLA appeal.