Parking Charge Notice... Excel Parking

clinne123

Well received my letter back from Excel Parking, look like I will have to go down the road of writing to POPLA now... Their letter did offer me the chance of paying the £60 instead of the £100 if paid by the 4th of April... obviously I didn't take them up on this... What did make me laugh was in the letter they mention that they are aware of the anecdotal information being presented on various websites and forums...


So now can some one point me in the right direction with how to set out a POPLA letter...

Redx

yep, just look at the NEWBIES thread again , the popla section with links in blue will sort you out

also try the forum search for similar appeals for the same site or PPC too

Guys_Dad

clinne123 wrote: »

Well received my letter back from Excel Parking, look like I will have to go down the road of writing to POPLA now... Their letter did offer me the chance of paying the £60 instead of the £100 if paid by the 4th of April... obviously I didn't take them up on this... What did make me laugh was in the letter they mention that they are aware of the anecdotal information being presented on various websites and forums...


So now can some one point me in the right direction with how to set out a POPLA letter...

Oh come on !!!!!

That's like standing on a beach asking someone to point you in the direction of the sand.

But if you REALLY are asking that question, go to the NEWBIES sticky.......................AGAIN.

clinne123

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Oh come on !!!!!

That's like standing on a beach asking someone to point you in the direction of the sand.

But if you REALLY are asking that question, go to the NEWBIES sticky.......................AGAIN.

I have had a look at the Newbies sticky before I wrote the message, I just found it pretty complicated reading through it...

Stroma

What you are looking for is the following

1) not a genuine pre estimate of loss
2) inadequate signage
3) no contract or authority to issue tickets

When you have found those you will see them much expanded on

clinne123

Well I've put together my POPLA letter as below, any hints about the set out would be appreciated, is there any thing else that needs to go in the letter... (it is quite long)... Many thanks for the help so far by everyone....






POPLA Verification Code: xxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxx
PCN Ref: xxxxxxx
Alleged Contravention date and time: xxxxxxx
Date of initial notice: xxxxxxx
Date of my response: xxxxxxx
Date of rejection to my response: xxxxxxx
Parking Charge Amounts: £60 then increased to £100
The reason for ticket: Driver left leisure park via Cargo Fleet Rd Traffic lights







Dear POPLA assessor

As the registered keeper of the above vehicle, I am appealing against the Parking Charge Notice issued against this vehicle when it was parked at Middlesbrough leisure park, on the grounds stated below.



1) Amount demanded is a penalty not a genuine pre estimate of loss
2) Legal capacity to issue parking charges
3) No clear map of the site boundary
4) Notice to keeper mistake

• No genuine pre-estimate of loss
  
  The charge of £100 is punitive and unreasonable, contravening the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice section 19. Excel Parking Services Ltd (Excel) must therefore be required to explain their 'charge' by providing POPLA with a detailed financial appraisal which evidences the genuine pre-estimated amount of loss in this particular car park for this alleged contravention. However, with or without any 'breach', the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same and there was no loss or damage caused so Excel have no cause of action to pursue this charge. I specified in my original appeal that I would like to see a breakdown of the costs incurred by Excel as a result of the alleged breach. Excel have failed to provide this information, stating that the charge is in line with BPA guidelines and therefore “deemed reasonable”. This reply completely fails to demonstrate that the whole charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The fact that the recommended maximum level in section 19.5 (“we would not expect this amount to be more than £100”) has not been exceeded merely means that the operator does not have to justify the amount in advance. In no way does it absolve the operator of their responsibility to base the figure on a genuine pre-estimate of loss, or to comply with section 19.6 which states that the charge can “cannot be punitive or unreasonable”.
  
  Excel cannot include their operational tax-deductible business running costs - for example, costs of signage, staffing and dealing later with the appeals, or hefty write-off costs. This would not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the alleged parking contract and in any case I believe Excel are likely to be paid by their client - so any such payment income must be balanced within the breakdown Excel supply and must be shown in the contract, which leads me to my next appeal point.
  
• Legal capacity to issue parking charges
  
  Excel have no proprietary interest in the land concerned and have not responded to a request for a copy of the contract with the landowner in which authority to pursue outstanding parking charges is granted, as required by the BPA Code of Practice, Section 7. In particular, the issue of the requirement set out in section 7.2 paragraph (f) : “whether or not the landowner authorises you to take legal action to recover charges from drives charged for unauthorised parking” has not been addressed. In the absence of this evidence, I believe that Excel do not have the legal capacity to enforce such a charge.
  
  I require the unredacted landowner contract including any payments made between the parties, names & dates & details of all terms included. I suspect Excel are merely an employed site agent and this is nothing more than a commercial agreement between the two parties. There is nothing that could enable Excel to impact upon visiting drivers in their own right, for their own profit. For the avoidance of doubt, I will not accept a mere “witness statement” instead of the relevant contract. There would be no proof that the alleged signatory can act on behalf of the landowner or has ever seen the relevant contract. Also a letter or statement would fail to show any payments made between the parties, and would omit dates & details of all terms in the actual contract - and so would fail to rebut my appeal point about the Operator's lack of standing & assignment of any rights.
  
• No clear map of the site boundary
  
  It seems that Excel are alleging the driver went off-site but have supplied no evidence of this, nor explained what constitutes 'off-site' and what their 'site survey' involved. And it has not been established whether they checked if, perhaps, a passenger was on site all along, and how this observation was made, by whom and how it was recorded as evidence. I put Excel to strict proof of this 'site survey' and photographic evidence of neither a driver nor passenger of this car being on site; such evidence to include photographs of the contravention and a site map and a picture of the signage that would have communicated to the driver the defined boundary of the site they are alleged to have left. If no such sign nor evidence exists then I contend that the driver could not have known where the car park site boundary began and ended and in the absence of evidence I deny that there was any contravention. I say there was no contract formed with the driver to pay a charge in 'exchange' for going off site; there was no consideration, offer nor acceptance and no site boundary defined.
  
  The burden of proof shifts to Excel to prove otherwise and to explain why their attendant (presumably) watched a driver walk towards the edge of an undefined boundary, yet made no attempt to stop/warn the driver. The attendant also had a legal duty under contract law, to mitigate any loss. In VCS v Ibbotson, Case No 1SE09849 16.5.2012:
  
• Notice to keeper mistake
  
  When I received the Notice to Keeper letter it states that the reason for contravention was Parked in a restricted street in prescribed hours, and not leaving the leisure park as on the original ticket left on windscreen of car.

I contend the above describes the charge exactly as an 'unfair financial burden'. The charge is designed ostensibly to be a deterrent, but is in fact a disguised penalty, issued by a third party agent which is not the landowner and has no assignment of title. Such a charge would normally be restricted to the landowner themselves claiming for any damages or loss - which was nothing. If the driver had only been informed of where the boundaries began and ended by clearer and transparent signage in the various areas of this car park. The charge of £100 imposed by Excel constitutes an unfair term as it is disproportionate with respect to the alleged infringement.

Coupon-mad

clinne123 wrote: »

I have had a look at the Newbies sticky before I wrote the message, I just found it pretty complicated reading through it...

What the bit that says 'POPLA' see post #3. Then when you go to post #3 you find a hyperlink 'How to win at POPLA'?

Anyway, glad you seem to have found it now! That's good.

All I would add would be where you say 'NTK mistake' add 'therefore no keeper liability has been established under the POFA 2012'.

Oh and you can also say 'No evidence for the contravention'. And just do a short paragraph along those lines (they never have proof of a driver leaving a site). Without evidence there is no charge or liability at all.

clinne123

Coupon-mad wrote: »

What the bit that says 'POPLA' see post #3. Then when you go to post #3 you find a hyperlink 'How to win at POPLA'?

Anyway, glad you seem to have found it now! That's good.

All I would add would be where you say 'NTK mistake' add 'therefore no keeper liability has been established under the POFA 2012'.

Oh and you can also say 'No evidence for the contravention'. And just do a short paragraph along those lines (they never have proof of a driver leaving a site). Without evidence there is no charge or liability at all.

Many thanks for the extra bits to add to my appeal against this charge... will do a bit more with it before I send it off....


Should I post the appeal or just email it...

Coupon-mad

You can't email a POPLA appeal. I would just do it online.

Redx

as above, no idea why you thought you can email it as if you go on their website they have a section for online submissions

just put a note "see attachments" and attach your appeal as an attachment , then when submitted you will get an email from london councils (popla)