consolidating pensions having worked in different countries

SteveG-910

Hi,
Pension challenge of a 61 year old single guy...
history:

15 years sate pension UK ( 8 years NCO RAF / 7 years industry )
15 years state pension Germany
11 years state pension Switzerland

Can I ( should I ) consolidate my pension(s) / How to calculate what my pension will be?

I know I'm not the only one travelling between systems and countries

thanks

molerat

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire/index_en.htm
http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/46251-swiss-pensions-consolidated-summary.html

SteveG-910

to molerat
Just a quick note to say thanks and, I will be following up this week

FatherAbraham

SteveG-910 wrote: »

Hi,
Pension challenge of a 61 year old single guy...
history:

15 years sate pension UK ( 8 years NCO RAF / 7 years industry )
15 years state pension Germany
11 years state pension Switzerland

Can I ( should I ) consolidate my pension(s) / How to calculate what my pension will be?

You can't really consolidate state pensions. You'll get a partial state pension from UK, and a partical from Germany. I have no idea about Switzerland, it depends on whether or not it's part of some EEA social security agreement.

You can get a pension estimate from DWP in UK for your UK pension.

No doubt you can get one from Germany for your German state pension.

You can increase your state pension benefits in UK, if you want to, by buying some extra contribution years via voluntary National Insurance payments. Maybe you could in Germany too -- but be aware that under the EU social security regs for pension accumulation, only voluntary contribs in one country can be taken into account when working out pension entitlements.

Warmest regards,
FA

JezR

Switzerland does presently have reciprocal arrangements via a bilateral treaty with the EU.

Note that these arrangements cover basic state pensions and their equivalents - entitlement to any extra state pensions are in addition.

kb92830

You can't really consolidate state pensions. You'll get a partial state pension from UK, and a partical from Germany. I have no idea about Switzerland, it depends on whether or not it's part of some EEA social security agreement.

This is not actually correct, the pensions can and will be consolidated based upon the reciprocal agreements. The State pension will be claimed from the pension authority of the last country you work in. Two calculations will be carried out, the first will calculate the value of the pension earnt in each of the countries that you have worked in, and then the amounts totalled up, the second calculation will then look at if all of the contributions were paid in each of the countries, ie. the total number of qualifying years (in this case 41), what ever calculation or sum is highest is what will be paid as a pension, if the latter option gives the best entitlement each country is responsible paying a pro rated amount based upon the number of years earnt in each of them.

In this particular situation, the highest is likely to be Switzerland, with the countries having to contribute the following ratios:

Switzerland 11:41 of the total pension payable
Germany 15:41 of the total pension payable
England 15:41 of the total pension payable

JezR

I guess it depends what you mean by the word 'consolidate'. To me that would mean somehow making a transfer of the contributions into one source and obtaining a pension some day from that. The above is not that as each country's system in the end still pays out separately, according to a set down formula. You do only have to claim once though, through the country of residence at the time.

Sunbeam25

Hi


I spent ten years working in Switzerland and I just sent a request for a calculation that will tell me what pension I will get.

If you have lost your AVI number there is another place to request them to tell you what it is.


www zas admin ch /dienstleistungen/00724/index.html?lang=en


add "." between the www zas admin and ch!

Sunbeam25

How your claim is worked out

Each EEA country where you have paid insurance towards a State Pension will look at your insurance under its own scheme and will work out how much State Pension you can have. As long as you meet the rules, you will get a State Pension from each country.
Each country will also look at any insurance you have in another EEA country. This can help you to get a State Pension, or a higher State Pension, under its own scheme.
To do this, each country sends details of your insurance record to the others. Each country then works out how much to pay you. They do it in two ways:

• Method A: Each country works out how much State Pension you can get, just from what you have paid into its own social security scheme.
• Method B: Each country adds together your insurance in all countries. Then each one sees how much State Pension you would get if your insurance had all been paid into its own social security scheme. But each country only has to pay you part of this. How much it pays you depends on how much you have paid into its scheme.

For example, if one-third of the insurance you have paid was from the UK, then the UK would pay one-third of the total State Pension it has worked out you could get. All the other countries usually work out how much they are going to pay in the same way.
If a country has worked out your State Pension using Method A, it will usually pay it to you while you wait for Method B to be calculated. If your State Pension is higher under Method B, you will get the higher one without having to ask.
Any UK graduated contributions you have paid are not used in working out Methods A and B. But you can get a State Pension from these contributions whether or not you get a State Pension using Methods A or B above.








So I'll have 35 years UK contributions and 10 years of Swiss contributions. That should give me the maximum UK pension, plus whatever the Swiss choose to pay me. I've requested an estimate from them using the link in the previous post which will give me method A, but I have yet to figure out how to calculate B as I think Swiss pension calculations are based on how much AVI you paid - whereas in the UK it's how many years you have paid NI.

kb92830

I guess it depends what you mean by the word 'consolidate'. To me that would mean somehow making a transfer of the contributions into one source and obtaining a pension some day from that. The above is not that as each country's system in the end still pays out separately, according to a set down formula. You do only have to claim once though, through the country of residence at the time.

The funds themselves are not consolidated in to one pot, however, you only claim the pension from the last country you worked in, you do not claim in multiple countries, so in effect it is consolidated in terms of how you claim. Yes each country does pay seperately but for calculation purposes it is calculated as though the pensions are consolidated (if that gives the highest pension).

So I'll have 35 years UK contributions and 10 years of Swiss contributions. That should give me the maximum UK pension, plus whatever the Swiss choose to pay me. I've requested an estimate from them using the link in the previous post which will give me method A, but I have yet to figure out how to calculate B as I think Swiss pension calculations are based on how much AVI you paid - whereas in the UK it's how many years you have paid NI.

Again here it depends where you last worked, if it is the UK then you would claim in the UK but they would use the calculations in the link below. In Switzerland it is also based upon number of years but can also be increased based upon earnings, the minimum amount is approx 14000 based upon 41 years but can increase up to 28000 dependent upon earning during the period. Here the calculations would be the better of the following 3 options:

Full UK state pension (based upon 35 years contributions) + the benefit earnt from the 10 years AHV savings (approximately 1 quarter of the minimum AHV pension of 14000Chf`s of course dependant upon earnings)

Or

Full UK state pension based upon 45 years contributions as if all were earnt in the UK

Or

The pension you could have earnt based upon 45 years of contributions to the AHV in Switzerland.

Which ever is the higher of these 3 options is what you will be entitled to, but the cost of provision behind the scenes will be shared by by both countries with the UK being liable for 35:45`s of the cost and Switzerland being liable for 10:35`s of the cost

In this particular case option 2 will be the lowest, whether option 1 or 3 is better will depend upon how much AHV you could have earnt in the 45 year period.

You do only have to claim once though, through the country of residence at the time.

This will be correct in the majority of cases but not all, if you have never worked in your country of residence you would claim from the country you last worked in. So for me I am a French resident but work in Switzerland, so for me I would claim in Switzerland and not France

This is probably the best link that explains it

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire/state-pension-claims-and-calculation/index_en.htm

Sunbeam25

From www ch.ch


An ordinary annuity of CHF 1'170 a month is guaranteed to anyone with a full contribution period and whose average annual income does not exceed 14'040 CHF. Annuity increases on the basis of your average annual income and is capped at CHF 2'340 a month (double the minimum pension), if your average annual income exceeds CHF 84'240.


So if my annual income exceeded 84240 for all the years I was there, I would presumably be entitled to the Swiss maximum pension as I would have the 44 years they require.