ESA (C) Ending 15/02/14

LL30

As above - I was due a payment today, but it's not here. Is that right? Also, do you get a letter explaining that you're not entitled to ESA any more?

Thanks lovely people

bloolagoon

Do you have savings or other household income?

Which group are you in?

LL30

Yes, I'm not eligible for income based. I'm in the wrag, so my time's definitely up, i just didn't want to waste time ringing them tomorrow if i could get the info from here:)

only_mee

My year was up 25th Jan, I have the forms here to claim ESA income based they have to be back by the 22nd Feb.I got paid today.

rogerblack

LL30 wrote: »

As above - I was due a payment today, but it's not here. Is that right? Also, do you get a letter explaining that you're not entitled to ESA any more?

Thanks lovely people

My understanding is yes - you should be paid for this - ESA is paid in arrears.

Did you migrate over from IB, or were you working recently before claiming ESA?
If it was the case you were working up until the start of your claim, in employed work, you may in some cases be entitled to a further year of ESA(C).

Also - have you carefully considered if you meet any of the support group descriptors in https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/esa214-a-guide-to-employment-and-support-allowance-the-work-capability-assessment - it is not too late to appeal against the initial decision to place you in the work-related group - though this does have to be done at the latest within 13 months, this will not quite be up.

LL30

I was working previously. I made my claim on 12th Feb last year, and the paperwork states they could pay me until 15th Feb 2014, that's why I was a little confused. But I'm not so clever with dates and numbers, I get terribly muddled!

I've looked at the descriptors but I don't wish to appeal. My diagnosis is being reviewed at the moment so I'm having tests galore and don't feel I can cope with anything else at the moment.

I have continued to keep myself SE despite not doing any work, so I have been paying my NI conts throughout my claim which count towards ESA (C). If I'm right, I could apply for ESA again in 6 months is it?

rogerblack

LL30 wrote: »

I was working previously. I made my claim on 12th Feb last year, and the paperwork states they could pay me until 15th Feb 2014, that's why I was a little confused. But I'm not so clever with dates and numbers, I get terribly muddled!

Assuming you were working as an employed person, not self-employed.
My understanding is that you may be eligible for a further years ESA(C).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/52/enacted

“1B Further entitlement after time-limiting

(1)Where a person’s entitlement to a contributory allowance has ceased as a result of section 1A (1) or (4) but—

(a)the person has not at any subsequent time ceased to have (or to be treated as having) limited capability for work,

(b)the person satisfies the basic conditions, and

(c)the person has (or is treated as having) limited capability for work-related activity,

the claimant is entitled to an employment and support allowance by virtue of this section.

(2)An employment and support allowance entitlement to which is based on this section is to be regarded as a contributory allowance for the purposes of this Part.”

Part A/C is satisfied - you have remained in the work-related group.
Part B - 'the person satisfies the basic conditions'.
This refers to http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/51/enacted

(3)The fact that a person’s entitlement to a contributory allowance has ceased as a result of subsection (1) does not prevent his being entitled to a further such allowance if—

(a)he satisfies the first and second conditions set out in Part 1 of Schedule 1, and

(b)the two tax years by reference to which he satisfies the second condition include at least one year which is later than the second of the two years by reference to which (under the second condition) his previous entitlement was established.

In short.
Your ESA(C) is running out, so you claimed ESA about Feb 2013.
You relied on this claim on your contributions in the last two complete tax years.

That is - 10/11 and 11/12. But you carried on working in tax year 12/13 up until Feb. - you have almost the entire tax year worked, so that year is also a relevant year now.

Your claim would be time-limited under section 51.1.1a.1 of the welfare reform act.
But - part 3 of that same clause - brings it back, as you also have valid contributions in year 12/13 - so you can use instead of 2010/11 and 11/12 - years 11/12 and 12/13.

(b)the two tax years by reference to which he satisfies the second condition include at least one year which is later than the second of the two years by reference to which (under the second condition) his previous entitlement was established.

.

I would suggest that you contact them, and ask for a callback from a decision-maker.
The legislation above is the only legal power under which they can time-limit ESA.

It cannot be much clearer that someone who in fact has been working employed at a significant wage so they meet the contributions tests up until their ESA claim should in usual circumstances continue to be paid for 2 years.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/252042/dmg-vol8-ch41.pdf

See 41847 - of their rules manual.
These examples imply you need a 12 week gap - closing your existing claim, then reopening a new one.

This is not my understanding of the law, nothing in the WRA seems to require this gap.

tinkledom

rogerblack wrote: »

it is not too late to appeal against the initial decision to place you in the work-related group - though this does have to be done at the latest within 13 months, this will not quite be up.

It may not be quite that easy.


As the months roll on, your reason for not making the appeal within the first 30 days has to become more compelling.

Morglin

rogerblack wrote: »

Assuming you were working as an employed person, not self-employed.
My understanding is that you may be eligible for a further years ESA(C).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/52/enacted
Part A/C is satisfied - you have remained in the work-related group.
Part B - 'the person satisfies the basic conditions'.
This refers to http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/51/enacted

In short.
Your ESA(C) is running out, so you claimed ESA about Feb 2013.
You relied on this claim on your contributions in the last two complete tax years.

That is - 10/11 and 11/12. But you carried on working in tax year 12/13 up until Feb. - you have almost the entire tax year worked, so that year is also a relevant year now.

Your claim would be time-limited under section 51.1.1a.1 of the welfare reform act.
But - part 3 of that same clause - brings it back, as you also have valid contributions in year 12/13 - so you can use instead of 2010/11 and 11/12 - years 11/12 and 12/13.
.

I would suggest that you contact them, and ask for a callback from a decision-maker.
The legislation above is the only legal power under which they can time-limit ESA.

It cannot be much clearer that someone who in fact has been working employed at a significant wage so they meet the contributions tests up until their ESA claim should in usual circumstances continue to be paid for 2 years.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/252042/dmg-vol8-ch41.pdf

See 41847 - of their rules manual.
These examples imply you need a 12 week gap - closing your existing claim, then reopening a new one.

This is not my understanding of the law, nothing in the WRA seems to require this gap.

I've never heard of 2 years CT ESA WRAG being paid, regardless of contribution cycle, but it will be interesting to see.

Other than that, the OP needs to either transfer to IR ESA (subject to income etc.,) or make a late appeal for SG.

Lin

LL30

Wow, well that's confused me

I was employed until April 2012 and then went self employed. Although I officially stopped doing any business in Feb 2013, I have continued submitting tax returns and I have been paying my Class 2 NI conts (which do count towards C ESA) as I was hoping to get back to it at some point.

Does the fact that I was SE change the chances? Interesting stuff, many thanks for the input. Oh, and my money went in today, computer must have been having a day off

rogerblack

LL30 wrote: »

Does the fact that I was SE change the chances? Interesting stuff, many thanks for the input. Oh, and my money went in today, computer must have been having a day off

My understanding is that it may.
I know in some cases that one of the contribution conditions can be met by SE earnings, but not the other.
I do not know how this would work in your case.

You would need to contact them.
I would suggest either writing to them, or asking a callback from a decisionmaker, and asking 'do my contributions in tax years 11/12 and 12/13 entitle me to a further years of ESA(C) under *'
Where * is the legislation I have mentioned above, and the part of the DMG.