Rates Nightmare (NNDR)

FarmerGilesUK

Someone needs to pinch me so I awake from this nightmare.

Just been contacted by https://www.voa.gov.uk to say that they have been asked by our local council to rate our manege and stables for NNDR. We've been in this property for 4 years and this is the first I've ever heard of this, my neighbours (with horsey facilities) have never heard of it either, none of their property is NNDR rated (YET).

We have a 20 x 60 manege, 4 stables, small tack room and hay barn.

I did a bit of research and in the end contacted the British Horse Society for advice - The nightmare now gets worse as they say the council will probably come back at us to 01-04-2010 and as we're not a business (we're not actually allowed to run a business due to planning restrictions on the riding school and stables) we wouldn't qualify for Small Business Rate Relief either.

The chap from BHS did give me some pointers on how to try to get them to lower the rateable value for some of the buildings in our yard when they visit and he advised us to play on the fact that we're not allowed to run as a business - This actually worries me more, as an admission that we're not a business surely disqualifies us from claiming the relief?

All a complete nightmare as this potentially exposes us to having to pay a bill of several thousand pounds in arrears and then an ongoing payment of probably around £1K per annum.

Needless to say we don't have that sort of cash washing around to pay the "arrears" and we're budgeted down to the last penny anyway so an additional £100 a month will force us to sell up and move.

All very sad - Any advice anyone?

00ec25

for anyone else reading this the OP has raised the question elsewhere and got a bit of help which may provide further context for anyone able to advise on here
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?651932-Rates-Nightmare-(NNDR)

by riding school I assume you hire horses for use by others and/or give lessons? Therefore you are operating a hire and reward business? Is the school licensed?

have you read the VOA guidance here:
http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/Publications/Manuals/RatingManual/RatingManualVolume5/sect995/b-rat-man-vol5-s995.html

I think you have a fight on your hands as the VAO says that "riding schools and/or livery stables occupied together with living accommodation should not be regarded as appurtenances belonging to, or enjoyed with, the living accommodation. They are not domestic premises and should be treated as composite non-domestic hereditaments in the same way that a shop and flat would be."

a ray of hope is however possibly available in "A consideration of the planning permission may be of assistance in deciding whether or not the stables or ancillary facilities may be treated as appurtenant to the domestic property"

at the end of the day if you are getting an income from your riding school it is not purely for personal use and therefore you should be paying tax on it

FarmerGilesUK

Bad use of words maybe. By riding school, I am referring to my manege (which horsey people tend to refer to as "their school").

We are not a business in any way, these facilities are used for private domestic use ONLY.

The killer is that we are physically separated from our "yard" by a lane therefore we cannot claim that this falls within our "domestic curtiledge [sp?]"

So no income at all, just used for recreation and exercise of our own horses.

Regards

elmer

If your assessed rateable value is low, you may qualify for the Small Business Bonus scheme (in Scotland), but there is something similar in England.
For the majority of our horse owners here this means that they do not have any rates to pay, but you do have to apply for it from the council.

elmer

FarmerGilesUK

Hi.

In England its called Small Business Rate Relief (SBRR). An advisor I spoke to suggested that we wouldn't be able to apply this as we're not allowed to be a business, BUT I think this is erroneous as I know of numerous horse owners who don't run a business but do claim and receive SBRR.

Currently it is 100pc relief for rateable values under 6000ukp (up to April 2015). We're very unlikely to be rated anywhere near that so we should get the relief.

I have a few worries though.

1. We may not qualify for the relief.
2. The relief is probably not going to last forever.
3. This additional rates bill could affect our ability to get the price we want when we come to sell our home.

Regards

lincroft1710

I'm ex VOA and the stables and manege are definitely rateable. Even if they adjoined the house, the premises are probably too large to be considered ancillary to the house.

http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/Publications/Manuals/RatingManual/RatingManualVolume5/sect995/b-rat-man-vol5-s995.html#TopOfPage

I can't help you on effective dates as I am Council Tax trained rather than NDR and effective dates for CT are complex.

Do remember that after it has been assessed you have a right to appeal against the rateable value and the effective date.

elmer

Hi Farmer Giles,

I work in Scotland not England so you may have to check my replies locally

1 The only criteria for SBB is the Rateable Value so if you are under the limit (you said £6000) you qualify, but you have to apply, it is not awarded automatically.

2 I was at a meeting about this with the Scottish government recently, and here it is unlikely to ever be rescinded as it would be political suicide, I would assume English politicians feel the same.

3 In this area, its very horsey, and all the owners seem to realise that NDR is charged for stables etc, and almost all dont pay any NDR due to the SBB, so you may need to explain all this when you come to sell.

Sorry I dont have English answers, but I dont think the two systems are very far apart, although the limit for the SBB RV is 10,000 in Scotland

elmer

FarmerGilesUK

@Lincroft1710

Maybe you can answer this for me then as you're ex VOA?

I've been looking at what they are charging premises with stables near to me and the Valuation Scheme References they are applying to set the unit rate.

VOA are applying schemes where the unit rate is "x" BUT the description states "conveniently situated to a small town, large villages, or a holiday catchment area" and yet the premises in question are very very rural - I'm talking 10 miles plus from the nearest town/village - hardly conveniently located near anywhere, and yet they are using the same Valuation Scheme Reference for premises close to towns.

Surely the achievable rents (the basis on which NNDR is charged) will be very different out in the sticks versus just on the edge of a fairly sizeable town?

Out here where everyone has an acre or three, nobody is interested in paying to stable their horse, whereas in a town the situation is reversed.

Something to use in any appeal maybe?

lincroft1710

FarmerGilesUK wrote: »

@Lincroft1710

Maybe you can answer this for me then as you're ex VOA?

I've been looking at what they are charging premises with stables near to me and the Valuation Scheme References they are applying to set the unit rate.

VOA are applying schemes where the unit rate is "x" BUT the description states "conveniently situated to a small town, large villages, or a holiday catchment area" and yet the premises in question are very very rural - I'm talking 10 miles plus from the nearest town/village - hardly conveniently located near anywhere, and yet they are using the same Valuation Scheme Reference for premises close to towns.

Surely the achievable rents (the basis on which NNDR is charged) will be very different out in the sticks versus just on the edge of a fairly sizeable town?

Out here where everyone has an acre or three, nobody is interested in paying to stable their horse, whereas in a town the situation is reversed.

Something to use in any appeal maybe?

Have sent you a PM on this.

FarmerGilesUK

Thanks Lincroft1710 for your PM. Most helpful.