No support for chimney breast in upstairs bedroom

christophersouch

Hello

We have just moved into a house that has the chimney breast removed in the front room downstairs but still intact in the bedroom above.

After ripping out the built in wardrobes (1960s) I have discovered the chimney breast appears to have no support, in fact appears to be floating above the floor joists.

What do I need to do? What could I get away with?

There's no sign of damage from the weight of the chimney breast to ceiling downstairs or the floor in the bedroom. As i said it appears to be supporting itself!

Any help or comments appreciated

tony6403

From what you have said you have bought the house ( otherwise you wouldn't be taking out fixtures) ?
Assuming that a survey was carried out , asking why you were not made aware of a possible major structural problem would be a good place to start.
Aside from that you may need to remove the rest of the chimney , or reinstate the removed brickwork or get advice from a structural engineer as to what is required to support what is left.
In any event don't delay ; it is quite possible that it will collapse if unsupported.

wallbash

In any event don't delay ; it is quite possible that it will collapse if unsupported.

Or it could remain that way for many years.
The chimney stack will be corbelled ( google the term , will see pics)

I have physically seen two stacks in different houses that have been like that for many years. They won't pass any inspections and the right advice is to get them supported but don't panic.

Building regs get changed and improved over the years, what was once acceptable, now gets challenged.
Gallow brackets are a good example.

What do I need to do? What could I get away with?

Insert a suitable RSJ ( sorry I believe even that name has been changed )

Personally, putting a beam in was a job a bunch of amateurs could and did do , I speak from personal experience ......... but now is frowned upon.
Life was a lot more fun before they tightened up

christophersouch

tony6403 wrote: »

From what you have said you have bought the house ( otherwise you wouldn't be taking out fixtures) ?
Assuming that a survey was carried out , asking why you were not made aware of a possible major structural problem would be a good place to start.
Aside from that you may need to remove the rest of the chimney , or reinstate the removed brickwork or get advice from a structural engineer as to what is required to support what is left.
In any event don't delay ; it is quite possible that it will collapse if unsupported.

we had a basic building survey, is this still something they should have noticed?

Prothet_of_Doom

You could rebuild the chimney breast in the room below.

You could put in an RSJ

you could get the rest removed, professionally

You could do nothing. (What's the worst ? Claiming on your insurance ? House falling down ? Death of a visitor ?

My parents had 3 chimney breasts removed professionally in 3 different houses, and quite frankly whilst it gave more space, it altered the room and made it "not right".

wallbash

christophersouch wrote: »

we had a basic building survey, is this still something they should have noticed?

The magic word is 'basic' , have heard that sometimes if their is problems entering the roof space, they word the document to cover their own backs!So check the wording.

Of the 4 options given
1) most expensive.
2) most likely
3)More expensive
4) Not advised, all are a bit messy.

whilst it gave more space, it altered the room and made it "not right".

True but that extra space is very useful.
My first house

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1186031

tony6403

OP - I would not be treating this in a casual manner (and certainly not be relying on corbelling . See 1.3 below).
I would expect that the issue should have been noticed by the surveyor and recorded : the chimney breast is present in the bedroom but missing in the groundstairs room below - fairly basic stuff .
Suggest that you ask your solicitor about the liability of the surveyor.

For information below is the advice given by many local authorities :-
1.1. The Building Regulations require that buildings remain structurally stable after alterations have been carried out on them. The removal of part or all of a chimney stack will require Building Regulation approval and work will need to be done to ensure the remaining part of the stack is properly supported.

1.2. The work must comply with the Building Regulations and an application to Building Control is required.

1.3. If a ground floor chimney breast is removed and suitable beams are not provided to carry the weight of the stack and chimney breast on the first floor the resulting eccentric loading of the stack and breast could eventually pull the wall over.

1.4. NOTE: Some chimneys act as a buttress and provide support to long walls. If this is the case consult a structural engineer. The engineers design will need to be submitted to Building Control prior to commencement.

1.5. If the chimney you are intending to remove is on a shared wall with your neighbour (the party wall) you will most likely have duties and obligations under the Party Wall Act 1996.

This is designed to resolve disputes, which may arise, between neighbours when building work is carried out. The Party Wall Act is not administered by Building Control is available at



http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/partywall

wallbash

OP - I would not be treating this in a casual manner (and certainly not be relying on corbelling . See 1.3 below)

Please post where that advice was given. The advice was not to panic.
Suggest you carefully read the replies before posting.

tony6403

wallbash wrote: »

The chimney stack will be corbelled ( google the term , will see pics)

I always studiously read all posts on which I comment.
What was the point of bringing up corbelling if it wasn't offered as a way of alleviating worry or deferring attention to what could be a serious structural problem.
It may not be such a potential catastrophe but I would always err on the side of caution.
My general comment about treating this in a casual manner stands and was not directed at anyone.