A plea to horse owners

Indie_Kid

From experience, it's a minority and the majority of horse owners are fine.

There was a race yesterday in Marazion, Cornwall and there were many horse owners around at the time of the race.

We started running and saw a crowd around someone who was clearly seriously injured. As soemone whose had some minor injuries whilst racing, I knew it was something serious - there aren't crowds of people around those of us with minor injuries.

It turns out that this poor woman had been kicked in the head by a horse and there were a group of horses and their owners out yesterday.

The horse and their owner had come out of a lane, the horse got startled and kicked out. Apparently, (I didn't see any of this) the owner was really rude towards the runners.

According to what was posted on Facebook yesterday, the stables were informed of yesterday's race. The weather was nice; but why on earth go out with your horse where you know there will be large groups of people running? There are also large yellow signs out on the course saying "caution runners".

There was more than one horse related incident yesterday too.

The police and the owner of the horse aren't interested.:mad:

Surely, this horse owner could see / hear us coming?

So horse owners, please do think about others before riding. The woman involved has sustained some serious injuries from yesterday's incident.

Whilst out yesterday, we did see a rider with their horse coming the other way. Thankfully for all involved, we could see each other and we weren't in each others way.

Bailey101

I'm a bit confused - were you racing on foot, like a marathon, and the horse riders were riding alongside? Or did the race and the riders cross paths at some point?

Why is the onus only on the riders to see what's coming - the runners should have also been more careful of what hazards were in the road and acted appropriately. It sounds to me like it's six of one, half a dozen of the other - both parties could have been more careful, but as a rider myself I can tell you that it makes things a lot more difficult when people are bouncing around behind your horse!

lostinrates

Indie_Kid wrote: »

. The weather was nice; but why on earth go out with your horse where you know there will be large groups of people running? There are also large yellow signs out on the course saying "caution runners".

.

Hi, I'm hoping I might be able to answer this small part of your post?

I own a yard on a route where we have a few such events at weekends. Most horse owners also work and weekends might be, certainly at this time of year, the only time they get to ride their horses out at all. This part of the horses education is actually important, and while its not ideal to be in the middle of a race, for a horse that's a competition horse (whether serious or amateur) many will consider it a training opourtunity.

Sometimes of fitness, which as a runner you will appreciate, particularly the more stamina building ones, are simply almost impossible to develop on most yards, all but the biggest don't have access to things like all weather gallops, so riders must head out on roads to bridle paths for a good straight blast, but also for the different types of mental and physical challenge and indeed often relaxation this offers. A year like this year, when the wind and rain have been bleak, the opportunity for this has been minimal. Most leisure riders will have taken the opportunity, the more driven amateur competition rider would have been very unsure of their horse not to or have something else booked elsewhere.

Often, sadly, we don't hear runners approaching, you are too quiet over wind, and shod feet. Personally all I can say is a good rider would have been aware the situation they were in and alert for you, but maybe this one was not, or perhaps an issue became more pressing.


Its unforgivable for a rider to be rude to you. We do often face people putting themselves at risk, particularly runners and cyclists who do not call ahead and pass too closely. A horses kick has significant reach, usually underestimated by other road users. Its an instinctive reaction and even the most steady horses are liable to spook accidentally hurtled someone.

Our horses Only learn to deal with such challenges through exposure, and noone prudent would take a 'green' horse into such a situation Its possible, though unfortunate, someone was rude because they were unsettled through nerves of being repeatedly passed too close.

If we were to not use roads every time our road net work here, in rural country side, were used for another event, I am afraid we'd have horses who were never competition ready, very frustrated owners, and never get leisure horses 'road safe'. I hope this gives you at least a partial insight into why we might, had this been in our area, been on the road too. I can assure you we would have been courteous.

We do ask our clients to try and get as much wrapped up before events take place. As for prior warning, we usually get less than a week, often are told the day before events. This is simply NOT enough for many of my clients to rearrange plans, especially those that rely on other professionals. For example, we occasionally have someone booked into take a particular horse out for road work before his owner rides him with the same professional. Less than 24 hours sees considerable knock on costs and frustration, even a week can do for other professionals.

Also, believe it or not, some of my clients argue that the 'big event days' feel safer to them' as the roads are otherwise quieter and people are generally being more observant and aware of 'other road users' than on normal days.

Op its terribly sad when an accident occurs. Its especially sad if someone out side our sport is damaged. Horse sports are not risk free, and we take that risk, my main concern as a courteous rider is to protect others and my horse from each other!

Indie_Kid

Bailey101 wrote: »

I'm a bit confused - were you racing on foot, like a marathon, and the horse riders were riding alongside? Or did the race and the riders cross paths at some point?

Why is the onus only on the riders to see what's coming - the runners should have also been more careful of what hazards were in the road and acted appropriately. It sounds to me like it's six of one, half a dozen of the other - both parties could have been more careful, but as a rider myself I can tell you that it makes things a lot more difficult when people are bouncing around behind your horse!

We weren't "bouncing around behind your horse". We were on the path, the rider was coming out of the path which was on our left.

They crossed paths at some point when the accident happened. The horse and the rider appearedto just come out of nowhere. There were two other riders who stopped thankfully. It also seemed that the rider involved, didn't even stop to see how this lady was.:mad:

I am not saying the onus is just on the rider - but do please take care on public roads where there might be people out there running or walking.

lostinrates

Indie_Kid wrote: »

We weren't "bouncing around behind your horse". We were on the path

They crossed paths at some point when the accident happened. The horse and the rider appearedto just come out of nowhere. There were two other riders who stopped thankfully. It also seemed that the rider involved, didn't even stop to see how this lady was.:mad:

I am not saying the onus is just on the rider - but do please take care on public roads where there might be people out there running or walking.

To horse and rider runners too can appear to come out of nowhere. You are often in our (and particularly our horses') blind spot.


Its abhorrent the rider didn't stop or give details. I'm actually really sickened by that. The same onus on us as is on any other road user IMO. I am surprised the police aren't interested.

I think most riders (or horse carriage drivers ) would say the the same to other road users...please do take care on public roads, we are out there too.

Indie_Kid

I have to admit that I wasn't happy at the police not being interested. The race organisers have no had to inform England Athletics (they give licences to hold the race) of yesterday's incident.

I've encountered quite a few horse riders when I've been out racing. They've been coming towards us; so we know that we need to move to one side to allow them to go past.

lostinrates

Indie_Kid wrote: »

I have to admit that I wasn't happy at the police not being interested. The race organisers have no had to inform England Athletics (they give licences to hold the race) of yesterday's incident.

I've encountered quite a few horse riders when I've been out racing. They've been coming towards us; so we know that we need to move to one side to allow them to go past.

And I hope they have been more polite?


I also hope you can see that in many incidences what is one race for you in an area is often one a series of events for us in that area, and that you might understand why its not always possible for us to vacate the road for you?



Fwiw, we host a water /steward station for two or three events a year. We still have never had more than a weeks notice, and still often the day or two days before 'do you mind if....' Yet the plans are drawn up for them to use it ..the miles of the route etc are marked using the point of ours they want to use

We host it because we'd rather have some control over knowing when and also clean up.

The first year a steward brought a child and dog, the child damaged property here, the dog wasn't cleared up after. Knowing its not ALL race organisers and volunteers we have explained this is not acceptable in the future and that if it happens again our property will not be available. (Noone offered to fix the damage mind you).

antw23uk

I'm a bit lost for words to this post really but will try not to go too overboard with my response.

Us horse riders have just as much right to be on the roads as you do. The weather is pretty appalling right now so of course a dry day with a bit of sun AND at the weekend its the perfect opportunity for us to hack out on our horses. Most of us work full time to afford to keep them and Monday to Friday I dont get to the yard until its dark and we are stuck in a school all week (Im lucky we have an idoor school so can ride in all weathers indoors) so to say we shouldnt be out just so you can run around is just plain rude and ignorant.

You didnt see the accident, you didnt see the rider being rude, its just hear say so for me a plea to all runners out there ... please stick to the gym treadmill because you are potentially scaring our horses and getting in our way! Thanks.

Person_one

antw23uk wrote: »

I'm a bit lost for words to this post really but will try not to go too overboard with my response.

Us horse riders have just as much right to be on the roads as you do.

The same right, but more responsibility.

You're on top of a massive, powerful, dangerous prey animal. You have more to consider and have to take more care than a pedestrian because you have the potential to cause far more harm.

Just as I have to take more care when I'm out with my dogs than without them, or when I'm driving a car compared to when I'm walking or cycling.

lostinrates

Person_one wrote: »

The same right, but more responsibility.

You're on top of a massive, powerful, dangerous prey animal. You have more to consider and have to take more care than a pedestrian because you have the potential to cause far more harm.

Just as I have to take more care when I'm out with my dogs than without them, or when I'm driving a car compared to when I'm walking or cycling.

I agree with this. (Although a cycle can do a lot of damage its less temperamental I'm told......generally I find otherwise but I'm told that's a minority experience. )

I also endeavour to be polite at all times, because while it can be tempting to respond negatively to lack of understanding or to.erance to horse riders (or dog walkers ) in general it just serves to show us in the worst possible light.

I am lucky in that in the past, its been one of my few talents to produce nice, road safe horses . But I tend to feel its important to be OTT with manners and consideration. Not least because on occasion the person passing you on a young horse from whom you ask more patience will note that you are the person normally on a steady needy and I generally find my neighbours have responded to this rather well. Of course, not everyone does, but.....its not a perfect world.

I ask all my clients to remember this when they come here too, that when they are here and on the roads they take my reputation, the reputation of my business with them as people don't know them often, but do know me...so if they are rude, or not wearing hi biz or safety equipment leaving here its poor reflection on my standards. I have great clients though

Similarly as riders we have the reputation of all riders on our shoulders......you are rude or discourteous....we all get tarred with the same brush.

orlao

I hope the lady recovers well - a kick anywhere, let alone the head is no fun.

As a rider who also lives in an area that has other events (usually cycle time trials in fairness) we have also had issues with other road users but I'm sure they have had problems with us too!

As LiR says, usually the first notice we have an event is when we come across the caution signs, usually too late as we are already out. My experience is that 'racers' are concentrating on completing the course in a competitive time - reasonably enough but unless the road has been totally closed to allow the race they do have to share and must take some responsibility for their actions too. Horses are big, unpredictable animals that can do a lot of damage - that doesn't mean that the rider is totally off the hook as IMHO they also have a duty to try and avoid accidents like this but it does take cooperation from other road users too. Runners in particular are pretty much silent, to a horse they can appear from nowhere and make them jump - most horses will spook away from a person but some will kick. I know how low the sun was yesterday - I made sure that I had Hi Viz on the horse's legs and tail as I wasn't confident that drivers would be able to see mine with the sun in their eyes. Maybe that is what happened with the rider? They didn't see the runners until they came out of the lane? Or they were left with fewer routes to ride because of this awful weather (I haven't seen mud like we have this year for donkeys years!) so had no option to use the road that you were on? The rider must have got a shock too so maybe she left the scene so that nobody else got kicked if the horse was still lashing out? Since the other riders stayed...

I don't know a single rider that will deliberately hurt another road user, we are generally very aware of the dangers on the road as we are also vulnerable but we don't always have the option to avoid other events due to either not knowing about it until we are in the middle of it or having no alternative but to use the same area of public space. It's not fun for us to end up in the middle of a road race of any kind.

The organisers should be informing their governing body because I bet they are using their third party liability cover? Any claim that the injured lady might make would be against them I think? The police were correct in that no offence was committed in that the highway code accepts that horses are unpredictable and that ridden horses should be passed wide and slow ie out of kicking range. A few years back I and a few others were involved in an incident where a group of time trials cyclists passed us at speed, far too close and on both sides at once which caused a pile up of cyclists and horses. One horse was injured to the extent that he needed the best part of a year off with tendon damage, mine tap danced on a very expensive bike some how missing the cyclist and a couple of cyclists ended up bruised and grazed...needless to say they were not happy (neither were we!) and were abusive to the extent that a bystander called the police. Despite all that and checking with our own insurance companies we were assured that we couldn't be held liable - civilly or legally - because the other road users were the ones at fault. They hadn't passed us with care. In fact, we could have claimed from them and/or the organisers.

Again, I really hope the lady injured has sustained no lasting damage.