New Bolier installation - please help.

simpleguy_blr

Hi,
Sorry about the long post!

I have an old boiler system with a hot water cylinder which is on its last leg and needs replacing. I have so far had three quotes, two quotes from independent guys and one from BG, BG of course is nearly twice the cost!

I have a two bed one bath property living in Greater London bordering Essex, I need to get the old boiler which is in the children's bedroom replaced with a good combi.

One of the independent guys mentioned that my gas meter to boiler pipe is 15mm and the pipes used for the radiators in the living room and hallway are microbore so Valiant might not be the best choice, a Main Eco Elite 30 KW would be a better choice, but one of the other guys said this need not be the case and Valiant should be fine.
Is this information correct? Can the Valiant choke on being installed?

The work involved will be as follows:

1. Isolate and Drain central heating and remove boiler from cupboard and flue system from loft and dispose
2. Drain old hot water cylinder and remove and dispose
3. Drain cold water storage tank in loft and disconnect from pipework, connect cold water main on to cold down services for bathroom
4. Fit new Mains 30kw eco elite combi in cupboard where hot water cylinder was and connect on to pipework
5. Fit new flue system going through roof in new location and make good roof
6. Fit magnetic filter on central heating pipework to protect boiler and scale reducer on cold water main into boiler to protect against scale
7. Fit thermostatic Radiator vales in both bedrooms and living room
8. Fit wireless room thermostat in hallway
9. Flush central heating with use of cleaner, refill and add protective chemical and test
10. Disconnect shower pump as will not work with a combi boiler
11. Fill out benchmark for boiler and issue home owners certificate
12. Clear all rubbish from site

Total Including all materials and Labour £2350.00 with 2 years warranty
If it’s Valiant Total Including all materials and Labour £2850.00
Valiant boiler will come with a standard 7 year warranty

Does this quote sound right? Is anything missing from the work to be done?

I was also thinking of moving it to the kitchen but both the independent guys and BG advised it will involve too much work as they might have to pull up floor boards etc and it will be more messy and if safety is my concern I can have a combi in the bedroom and it’s very safe as all modern ones are room sealed.


Many Thanks

ollski

Is it your choice to downgrade to a combi?. The advice is true to a point, vaillants are more sensitive to blocked systems throwing up various fault codes. I would be wondering why the system wasn't being fully cleaned rather than which boiler will work better on a dirtyish system.

simpleguy_blr

Combi I was told was an upgrade to my existing system as we can get rid of the hot water cyclinder and install a more efficient boiler.
The existing boiler is an old Appollo Mayson one which is not heating properly, it takes ages to heat up the water and to provide central heating, and can't do both simultaneously.
Is it a downgrade?

ollski

Stored hot water is much better, especially if you already have a pumped shower. It sounds like you need pipework and controls upgraded but that's not too much bother. If you need the space back where your cylinder is then consider a combi otherwise, if it's in reasonable condition, I can imagine no reason to lose it.

simpleguy_blr

The engineer mentioned that the boiler is not working and its time to replace it, and also the flue is in a bad shape, so considering what you have mentioned, does it make sense to first get the system flushed and if the boiler is not working correctly then replace it with a similar boiler retaining the hot water cylinder and existing shower with the pump?

ollski

I'd certainly be getting priced up for that option aswell.

matelodave

If the tank is furred up then you'll probably need to get that replaced as well - we had our hot water tank taken out 3 years ago and there was about 10kg of fur & crud welded to the heating coil, immersion heater and lying in the bottom which was strange as the house didn't even have central heating. Connecting a new boiler to a furred up water tank is a waste of money


We fitted a Vaillant combi in our previous house 18 years ago and it was still going strong when we moved over three years ago. It gave us the benefit of continuous hot water, the heating system became more responsive, our gas bill dropped by 40% and we gained cupboard and loft space - in fact we installed the boiler in the airing cupboard where the old hot water tank was located. The only down side was that baths took a bit longer to run but you could have as many as you like, one after the other. The shower performance improved considerably. Don't forget that keeping a tank of water hot all day & night wastes energy in heat losses - about 2kwh a day for a well insulated tank.
Both my daughters have recently replaced their old knackered boilers with combis and they both agree that the benefits of a combi outweigh those of a conventional system.
I'd have one where I live now if we had mains gas

simpleguy_blr

Thanks matelodave, this is what made me think in the first place that if I had to change the boiler I might as well get a combi installed.
The quote is for the boiler to be fittefd in the airing cupboard where the old hot water tank is located.
My only concern is if its safe to install a bolier in the bedroom?

I am aware that boliers can be noisy, my old system is indeed loud and we are used to the noise now, but its more about CO gas!

If I move it to the kitchen I will have to give up on some storage space and will add to the cost.

simpleguy_blr

I received one more suggestion to try and repair my old boiler

"As suggested on the phone I suspect that the system is fairly clogged up with sludge, to clear this a Power flush would be required. I would also want to replace the 3 port valve so that you can have heating and hot water on at the same time, check the controls and replace if required and finally check the pump is working correctly and replace if required.

Obviously the last option will be much cheaper over all if it can be repaired – rough cost if I did carry out everything I have suggested – Labour - £425 – Materials – £400."

In total about £825.

Does this price sound about right? Or am I being charged too much?

Thanks

Lgas

Honestly if you're paying that much to repair it, I would replace it, it is going to completely fail at some point, and if it needs a part that is obsolete, you're going to be paying all over again to replace it anyway. I personally would prefer to keep the conventional system over a combi. All new boilers are SEDBUK A rated, over 90% efficient, regardless of being a combi or conventional boiler.

Also I have to say, if people have said how much more efficient their new combis are instead of their old boilers - it's just because it is a new boiler!