Electricity - Paying Landlord/lady Maximum Rates

Hellfire8

Okay, simply put the situation is this.

The house we live in use to be larger but was split up, there is currently our house, a small office and a shop. Because of this there is only one electricity line going into the property. After the suppliers main meter there are three others installed for each property. (we actually didn't know either of this until yesterday)

Our Landlady (who also owns all three of the properties) charges us for the utilities. (£150.00 a month for Water & Electric) We figured that's great, we'd have some coming back to us as there is NO way our family would use that per month. Even in Winter at our last house we used around £60.00 a month but it was a lot smaller.

So we got the first bill through from the landlady for the first quater Oct/Nov/Dec

3218 Units (ok this is high but as it is winter and a old house thats fine)
Price per unit 0.16p unit/Kwh THAT is certainly not OK,

So we contacted the landlady and asked to take over the account for this property, this is when we found out the situation is as above.

So for the £518.88 for a quater, okay it will go down in summer once the heaters are off and me and my wife are going to use heaters less and try the "tea light/flower pot" heating method but that is besides the point.

She said the prices are high as it is a commercial contract she has to have and not a residential. She has also said she can't get separate lines going in without charging a large amount (ie £4,000 for the install)

Now I've done a quick bit of research and found two things,

1: There is a maximum rate the landlady/landlord can charge us for the electric (called the "Maximum resale price" BUT I can not actually find what this price is in a specific value, does 16p/kwh fall within this price.

2: Apparently there is something that says she can only charge us the domestic price of electricity (even if she is on a commercial contract) but I can't find this substantiated anywhere and was just a little bit I saw online.

So, does anyone have any advice, I want to keep the relationship with our landlady civil as the property itself is still cheaper than our previous and we adore our new home BUT I don't want to be ripped off for the electric/utilities.


Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Cardew

Firstly a landlord cannot sell gas/electricity at a profit. You pay what she pays.


Secondly as a commercial customer she presumably pays VAT at 20% and domestic customers should pay 5%. Is there scope for her to reclaim some of the VAT.


All new domestic accounts now have to pay a daily standing charge(DSC) and it appears that you are not being charged for a DSC.


Obviously 16p/kWh is very high, but without a DSC and presumably VAT at 20% it is not excessive.


3,218kWh for a winter quarter for an all electric flat, in a converted house presumably without the latest insulation is not high.


Quite honestly to pay £150 a month for electricity/water is not a bad deal and I would have elected to stay on that charge.

Hellfire8

Hi,

Thanks for your input,

I agree our usage isn't excessive (and I don't disagree with the amount we've used, I agree we've used that much) and it is actually a house we have not a flat, (large 2 bed house)

The insulation is very poor, listed building so only single glazed (however we've made thermal blinds/curtain for all the windows) the roof insulation is being done because of a problem to the roof a lot of it is being replaced the landlady is getting it insulated as well.

My biggest cost is the per kWh we're paying, as you said 16p is high, it includes the 20% Vat and the environmental charge she has to pay.

For the fact it is classed as commercial, the cost I don't think is high either and I am not too worried about it as our landlady is lovely and understanding it's purely the fact of my 2 points and the information I've read saying she can't charge us commercial prices.

matelodave

http://www.uregni.gov.uk/uploads/publications/Guidance_for_Resellers_of_Electricity_or_Gas.pdf have you read this - the landlord is not allowed to charge you 20% VAT even if that's what they pay - the VAT rate you should pay is 5%.


You should get a proper breakdown of his/her pricing and a ideally look at her bill to confirm what unit rate she is paying.
You should only be paying your proportion of the standing charge as well. Any additional service charges that she makes can't be included in your electricity bill, but must be separately listed and billed

Ryune

There is no reason she's paying 20% VAT other than she's not managing the account. On commercial billing the assumption is that you should pay 20% unless you advise the supplier otherwise.

All she needs to do is submit a VAT Decleration to the supplier and they will charge 5% VAT and no climate change levy. The onus is on her to do this. Most supplier will backdate any VAT reduction (up to 5 years) however this is at their discretion.


As for the unit price 16ppkWh is excessive for commercial and there's much better available on supply contracts, usually averaging 10ppkWh overall. I've seen average rates under 9.5ppkWh on a 12 month contract recently for a small commercial supply.


The main issue is that most landlords don't care and just let these things tick on or roll over onto higher rates.

p00hsticks

Ryune wrote: »

All she needs to do is submit a VAT Decleration to the supplier and they will charge 5% VAT and no climate change levy. The onus is on her to do this. Most supplier will backdate any VAT reduction (up to 5 years) however this is at their discretion.

But is it as simple as that ? FRom what the OP says the supplier is actually supplying an office and shop as well as the residential property all from a single line and billing the landlady for all three together. It's unclear who owns/installed the three individual meters the other side of the suppliers own meter

matelodave

If she's split the supply to individual flats and it's all coming off the business supply then it's up to her to sort it all out. She can't make any of the tenants pay or contribute to her consumption nor can she make them pay for her proportion of the standing charge. She is running a business and has to obey the law and sort out the paperwork to suit - she either pays the 15% difference herself or tries to reclaim it, either via her VAT returns or from the supplier

Nada666

Hellfire8 wrote: »

The insulation is very poor, listed building so only single glazed (however we've made thermal blinds/curtain for all the windows) the roof insulation is being done because of a problem to the roof a lot of it is being replaced the landlady is getting it insulated as well.

Hardly the environs in which a tea light flower pot heater (aka your own body heat) would be of any use!

Ryune

p00hsticks wrote: »

But is it as simple as that ? FRom what the OP says the supplier is actually supplying an office and shop as well as the residential property all from a single line and billing the landlady for all three together. It's unclear who owns/installed the three individual meters the other side of the suppliers own meter

Most VAT declarations let you specify a % usage thats domestic. The supplier will then bill that % of the bill on 5% and the rest on 20%.