Same employer but company re-organises. T's & C's changing - Where do we stand?

Babbler

This is a bit of a long story but will try shorten it...

The company I work for (50,000+employees) has several individual trading companies that come under the same company name.
Recently they have decided to reorganise and the trading company I worked for was split into 2 - one being made into another department and the other (mine) being moved into an existing one.

The problem is - even though I am not changing companies as such the other 'trading' company has different T's and C's. These T's and C's are worse than ours (some people lose overtime pay/less paid sick time etc). The ones were on were negotiated over the years at the cost of losing an extra % here there there on our pay rises (e.g. getting flexi instead of extra pay rise %).

They have made several offers to date to compensate for the changes, all of which were deemed unsatisfactory (do not cover the loss of overtime/sick pay we are being asked to accept sufficiently) by the employees. They are now saying if we do not accept their final offer they will 'fire and re-hire' us (i.e. serve notice on us and give us the chance to join the other trading company under the new T's and C's). They have given us until the end of the week to decide or they will start that process. If we then decide not to take up the 'new employment' they will initiate disciplinary procedures.

The work we are doing has not changed at all - the contract we will work on remains the same and is being transferred with us. We remain in the same office as well (for now).

Apparently this is not a TUPE change so we are not covered by that. Also should note each person is being offered the chance to accept individually but its a global offer (no matter what grade you are/ what you lose you will get the same compensation).

My question is - where do we stand legally on this issue? Can they do this (serve notice and re-hire us?). Where do we stand generally in this matter? Any lawyers out there that can help?

Thanks in advance.

Andy_L

Deffinatly looks like there setting themselves up for breach of contract/unfair dismissial
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=816

Babbler

It does have this at the bottom though:

If, after negotiation, agreement on a variation of contract has proved to be impossible, an employer can – having followed the statutory dispute resolution procedures, where they apply, and observed any relevant procedural agreements - terminate the original contract, with proper notice, and offer a new contract to the employee, including the revised terms. There will be no breach of contract as a result of taking such action. If the employee accepts the new contract, continuity is preserved.

Which is what they are planning to do... what is "having followed the statutory dispute resolution procedures"... it is a little worrying that we may end up with nothing and have to work under the new T's and C's...

Jarvisma

They cannot just 'fire and rehire' you without good reason. And not agreeing to an alteration to your T&C's is not good reason.

This clause you have quoted, what is it actually on? As if they are just telling you this, it isn't something you have signed and agreed to.

Despite what they are trying to claim this does sound as though they are leaving themselves open to claims of constructive dismissal and breach of contract. If you have to give them a response by Friday you need to speak to someone at ACAS as soon as possible or if you can't speak to them speak to a solicitor, lots of them will give you a free 1/2 hour consultation to see if you have a case. Take all you paperwork with you and they should be able to give you a rough idea without you having to pay a fortune.

It is important you do this quickly though as continuing to work AFTER the contracts have been altered would be taken as you implied agreement to the new terms, so if you do have a case you would need to cease work immediately to claim CD & BoC. And you shouldn't do that until you are sure you have a good case.

Give them a ring today if you can. Good luck, don't let them bully you x

Babbler

Thanks - that clause is from the ACAS site, implying they can do this if no agreement has been reached after negotiations.

Will look into talking to a lawyer about this... didnt want it to go that far though!

harl

Staff at Next have gone though the same soet of proceedure ,and Next have now dismissed people for refusing to comply and sign to the new contract's .I know of one staff member that has started leagal proceeding's.

Babbler

harl wrote: »

Staff at Next have gone though the same soet of proceedure ,and Next have now dismissed people for refusing to comply and sign to the new contract's .I know of one staff member that has started leagal proceeding's.

Dont supose there is any more info on this anywhere...?

ohreally

At 50 000 employees, i would suspect the employer is unionised, if so are you and your colleagues members?

CFC

Babbler wrote: »

It does have this at the bottom though:

If, after negotiation, agreement on a variation of contract has proved to be impossible, an employer can – having followed the statutory dispute resolution procedures, where they apply, and observed any relevant procedural agreements - terminate the original contract, with proper notice, and offer a new contract to the employee, including the revised terms. There will be no breach of contract as a result of taking such action. If the employee accepts the new contract, continuity is preserved.

Which is what they are planning to do... what is "having followed the statutory dispute resolution procedures"... it is a little worrying that we may end up with nothing and have to work under the new T's and C's...

If the employer can cite and demonstrate real business need to change your t and c, yes they can do this. You're quite right. It would not be constructive dismissal. At the end of the day, it depends if the company have followed the right processes. With such a big company and big changes, it is likely that they have taken good advice before taking it to this level, in which case, it's bite the bullet time. In effect you will be deemed to have resigned as you have chosen not to work under the new contract.

You can certainly take it forward to an ET after termination of contract, but I wouldn't hold out great hopes unless the company is not very competent.

Babbler

ohreally wrote: »

Babbler, join the union. Do so as a matter of urgency.
As a matter of interest, what union is it?

I'm afraid Im not sure which union it is... think it may be UNISON...

Luvly.cuppa.T

I can't understand how this is not TUPE transferred as you are in the same position etc etc. I thought all companies that there were bought out, amalgamated etc came under it?
From what I remember talking to acas on this if the offers are worse in the new contract you need to write a grievance and go through that process, although I do know that there does come a time when the company can fire and rehire you. This means that you will also lose your time acrued there as an employer, and you may need this further on in the line for example redundancies and any legal battles, for which you sometimes need a years employment.
It does get messy this one though and it really does seem unfair.
All the best with it.