Do I have the right to a refund on a replacement?

muddlemand

The faulty product is a Andrew James slow cooker. It is an eBay seller but I believe that makes no difference to my rights. (?)

I got a replacement because I'd had it longer than a month so couldn't have a refund.

The replacement arrived this morning (despite an assurance that it would be here on a 1-2 day courier, meaning it would have arrived a week and a day ago - which they said they'd make happen, because disability makes my life very difficult when I haven't got any slow cooker). This product has exactly the same fault, so I messaged this afternoon and asked for a full refund this time.

I got the reply that I can't have one because of the length of time I've owned the item. Tonight I pointed out in another message that I've owned it since this morning.

Does the month in which I have the right to refund begin with the day this one arrived (today), or the day I had the first one (two months ago)?

wealdroam

All counting is usually done from the date of purchase.

You have only made one purchase.

You can choose the remedy, but you cannot force the seller to provide a disproportionate remedy.

So if the seller feels the most cost effective remedy for him is a replacement, then he can do that, but it must not cause significant inconvenience.

Out of interest, what is the fault?

muddlemand

Thank you...

[Realised how long this turned out, so I've put bits in bold to help scan-reading!]

The fault is that the lid fits badly and allows steam out, which means food boils dry and burns if unattended - or reduces liquid significantly - exactly what a slow cooker is *not* about. After purchase I found it is quite commonly mentioned in reviews of this slow cooker, seems to be luck whether you get one that fits or not.

I don't really see that I can be expected to inform them (that this latest one is wrong) a month after my original purchase, which would be Christmas time, given that I only received this one yesterday...

I bought originally in late November because my old beloved slow cooker broke and as I said, I can't cope without a slow cooker. Using an oven or pans means that much more lifting and work, and timing / paying attention, all of which are difficult because my health is poor and my conditions include pain and concentration/attention difficulties - sometimes, but especially at the time of day you tend to need to cook.

I use the time-honoured method of slow cooking, adding a new ingredient the next day and producing a different meal, day after day for about a week and then blending what's left into soup. I clean with white vinegar and peroxide, which are not only cheap but also safe on food surfaces and don't need rinsing off, so I hardly ever lift the pot out of the slow cooker - if I must, I either get someone else to, or wait for a strong *and* low-pain day/hour.

I'm going into all this detail only because I explained this (more briefly) to the company before returning the slow cooker - they knew I would be in dire straits if I had to last more than a day or so without its replacement. They got the courier to collect from here instead of me taking it to a pick-up point, because I could never carry it to the car. They promised they'd dispatch the replacement the same day the returned one was logged in, (I'd have it in two days) - he collected on Monday 13th and so I thought, worst case, they'd check it in on 14th and I'd have the replacement by the 16th. In fact it came on the 23rd (that's ten days) and only after I chased them on the 20th - would have chased on the 16th or 17th but I wasn't up to using the computer, which was, really and truly, as a direct result of the extra work of living without a slow cooker.

This one is no better... I have pointed out that they'd actually save money by refunding, since it saves them the cost of the courier sending me out yet another replacement.

When I messaged yesterday, their reply was: "Unfortunately we would not be able to issue a refund for this product due to the amount of time you have owned it. The return for a refund process is for the initial 30 days of ownership anything after this 30 day period is for a repair/replace. // Could you please confirm the problem on the lid?"

So I replied saying it doesn't fit and the food spoils, and please re-read the whole message thread for why this all matters. Today I got an identical, copy-n-paste reply: "Unfortunately we would not be able to issue a refund for this product due to the amount of time you have owned it. The return for a refund process is for the initial 30 days of ownership anything after this 30 day period is for a repair/replace."

I feel quite helpless, I could be returning and receiving their slow cookers for weeks over and over again, until I give up and write off the cost of it, which maybe they want. My alternative would be to re-sell as brand new, but I wouldn't like to sell knowing the product is of such poor quality.

Sorry this is so long. "The present letter is a very long one, simply because I had no leisure to make it shorter." ~ Blaise Pascal (for leisure, read energy.) Mainly I was hoping that my rights with a brand-new, just-arrived item would be the same regardless of whether it is a replacement or the first one. I suppose I was also hoping that "significant inconvenience" would come into it in my case.

hollydays

Have you tried ringing eBay to discuss?
Presumably there is a seal inside the lid that should make it airtight?

muddlemand

wealdroam wrote: »

All counting is usually done from the date of purchase.

Just noticed your first sentence! - Would date of purchase mean the date I bought and paid, or the date it arrived? (Online buying.) I'd have thought the date it arrived.

Lomast

I own 4 different slow cookers, different sizes and brands and all of them let steam out round the lid, i think you may have an unreasonable expectation of slow cookers, i accept that your previous one may not of done but generally i have found over 20 years of owning and using them that they usually do let the steam out.
Having said that i have never left food in a slow cooker longer than 8-9 hours

wealdroam

muddlemand wrote: »

Just noticed your first sentence! - Would date of purchase mean the date I bought and paid, or the date it arrived? (Online buying.) I'd have thought the date it arrived.

There is no statutory 30 day period during which you are automatically entitled to a refund.

This 30 day period appears to be one decided upon by the seller, and maybe agreed upon by you at the time of sale.

As such there is no way that anyone can tell you when this 30 day period starts... beit date of paying , date of delivery, or anything else.

muddlemand

hollydays - my next move, if no joy tomorrow, will be to get the seller's contact details and see if I can find a human being in the company. (So far they all just read my last sentence and reply to that as if nothing had gone before... and I haven't been this long-winded to them! sorry about that ealier!!)

I just don't want to start fighting for the refund, if in fact I have no legal right to demand one. I'm trying to find out whether the law agrees with what strikes me as only fair.

And the lid's rim is just metal. This evening they have asked me to confirm whether it sits flat on a level surface (the lid on its own, I think they mean), but it's already sealed in the box to go back.

Lomast - I'm not talking 8-9 hours, but 3-4 hours. A little steam is one thing and wouldn't surprise me, but you don't expect things to boil dry like that. ... When I said I leave food in for days, I didn't mean I keep the heat on. I turn it off overnight, top up with liquid and extra or different ingredients and/or herbs, and start it again some time before lunch the next day. Works great. But this one boils dry even starting from cleaned out.

wealdroam - from the Which? website: "You have the right to reject your item and get a refund within four weeks of purchase" - up to six months they can choose whether to replace instead, but it's still assumed the fault was there at time of purchase. After six months the onus is on the buyer to prove that.

Most things to do with online buying start from when you receive the product. I mean the distance selling regulations.

hollydays

You might have more success if you post on the eBay board

muddlemand

hollydays wrote: »

You might have more success if you post on the eBay board

Thanks, didn't think of that!
It's really the legal yes/no question I need answering though.

Lomast

Sorry, i misunderstood you you are right it should not boil dry in that sort of time.

If you are still within the 45 days of the ebay sale you could open a case on there but im not 100% which way ebay will decide.

Have you tried speaking to the manufaturer to see what they say? I know you have no contract with them direct but sometimes a good result can be achieved with less of a fight