Workplace permit - lost and got parking notice

drspouse

My workplace issues permits (that we pay for) but if you don't display one they have "charge" notices (we aren't sure if they are big, visible enough etc, but they are there and they don't say "penalty").

Permits are in the mid £100 a year, the PCN amount is £45 and the amount on the NTK is £75.

I parked at 8.45 am on a Monday to go to a meeting on my work site but away from my office; I came back at 11 to find a PCN. I was a little shocked as I had paid for a permit! It turns out my permit was missing (we think the garage lost it during a service and I had no idea it was missing). I bought a replacement permit at £30 the same week (as quickly as I could actually get to the parking department).

We are intending to appeal, and it seems a bit different to your regular PCN.

Does anyone have any advice on the following:

1. My employer website says: Any vehicle not clearly displaying a valid permit is liable to be issued with a Civil Parking Notice (CPN). Penalty fee: £75, reduced to £45 if payment is received within 14 days. This is enforced by Company Security staff supported by an external facilitator, Liberty Services. Photographic evidence is taken and sent directly to Liberty Services for processing. Company Security staff are not involved in the administration of taking payment of the CPNs.

Can this be quoted in a POPLA appeal, particularly the use of "penalty"?

2. The Notice to Keeper makes no reference to "Liberty Services".

3. As it is a staff permit is it correct to assert that the employer has
incurred no loss? Are they allowed to issue financial penalties?

Thanks.

Stroma

That is your employers wording and won't have any bearing on the appeal to popla, but you must appeal to the parking company first and on rejection they give you a code to appeal there. Are you the registered keeper of the vehicle?

Half_way

3. As it is a staff permit is it correct to assert that the employer has
incurred no loss? Are they allowed to issue financial penalties?

you obviously have some idea on whats what, the fact that the term penalty is mentioned is good as to answer your last point no they cant issue fines or penalties..
In some situations you could tell the parking company where to go, however as this is a work environment and to avoid any aggro you should play a straight bat. in other words wait for the notice to keeper letter to arrive from the parking company - are they are in the BPA (limited) ? if so then you should get a letter.

You should also check with your employer/contract to see what it says about parking permits, some key words are: fines, penalties, deterrent and so on all of these are good especially of they are written down..
If you get any aggro form work, or they threaten you with taking the money out of your wages you need to tell them that you are appealing the decision by their parking contractor using a recognised appeal system set up the the BPA, and complainat with the protection of freedoms act ( a little bit of bluster there but it may help the un educated higher ups from getting on your back).
Next challenge this with the parking company, and then to POPLA if required.
Typical things include Not a Genuine Pre estimate of loss (GPEOL) and no contract to offer parking.
if you go down to popla route with GPEOL following on form recent cases its worth expanding the gpeol issue - sch as the charge is not a genuine pre estimate of loss flowing directly from the fact that the driver didnt display a permit on that day.

in the meantime dont panic, dont worry, dont loose sleep over it and take a read ot the very comprehensive newbies thread/topic on here.

drspouse

Thanks - it's the employer website that mentions penalties. They say that appeals should be to the parking company (not them).

I'm not the registered keeper, it's my husband (not an employee) and he got the NTK yesterday, which was the right delay - so we know we have 28 days now.

It does sound like we're on the right track with the genuine pre-estimate wording.

I haven't heard of anyone getting a threat of money taken out of their wages but I'll bear this in mind if I do get anything.

Stroma

Send a soft appeal to them like below, don't worry about it not being on the issue at hand, this deals with their whole basis of being scammers. I guess it mentions breaching terms and conditions ?

Dear Ticketers,

As the registered keeper of (reg) I'm in receipt of your parking invoice xxxxxx dated xxxxxx. I wish to invoke your appeals process as is my right under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, all liability to you company is denied on the following:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the capacity to offer contracts or to bring a claim for trespass

These points and others will be raised with Popla should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Please issue your cancellation within 35 days of this letter, or provide a popla verification code.

Faithfully

Coupon-mad

So it's self-ticketing by someone on site then. Usually there is a bounty paid for that, per ticket. So who is the jobsworth who issues the fake PCNs I wonder?

Anyway just follow the 'Newbies read this first!' sticky thread in terms of your husband's first appeal - do not imply who was driving. Usual rules apply. We do need to see a picture of the sign on site please - it is possible it isn't worded in a helpful way for you to argue no GPEOL. So can you show a pic of the sign and also both sides of the NTK? I would be surprised if the NTK is compliant with POFA 2012. You can check it against the POFA 2012 link in the Newbies sticky and/or let us take a look to spot the flaws (which could make the appeal at POPLA easy for your husband if he can show he isn't liable in law).

But also (belt and braces!) at POPLA stage remind me to show you the version I saved from a POPLA appeal which includes a paragraph about self ticketing.

Half_way

Just to re iterate all the above, things arent looking that bad , does your workplace have a comunal noticeboard? if it is a self ticketing operation it may help raising awareness of the issue by placing a few pepipoo flyers round the place, noticeboards etc etc

drspouse

Picture of sign on site:

Coupon-mad

That's very useful for your POPLA appeal, as it says 'failure to comply' results in a PCN. Which means they have to show the charge to be a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

What about the Notice to Keeper, both sides? Cover your details & car reg and PCN number of course.

drspouse

Can only see 2 grounds for appeal

The parking charge of £75 is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
BPA CoP 19.1 19.5

The Notice to Keeper does not specify the period over which the car was parked in the space, only the time it was seen and PCN issued.
PoFA Schedule 4, 8 2(a)
BPA CoP 18.5

Coupon-mad

Can only see 2 grounds for appeal

The parking charge of £75 is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
BPA CoP 19.1 19.5

The Notice to Keeper does not specify the period over which the car was parked in the space, only the time it was seen and PCN issued.
PoFA Schedule 4, 8 2(a)
BPA CoP 18.5

I can see several issues, and I have seen a CPP (aka Liberty Printers) contract before, so in an attempt to get it cancelled up front, I would write:



Dear CPP/Liberty,

Re: car registration xxxxxxx NTK ref xxxxxx
I am the registered keeper and have received your 'Notice to Keeper' (NTK) which made interesting reading and has been scrutinised by various advisors. This is my formal challenge/appeal as keeper:

1 - The parking charge of £75 is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

2 - CPP do not own the car park so you do not have the locus standi to pursue this matter, nor to have formed any contract with the driver.

3 - The NTK does not specify the 'period of parking' and nor does it identify the 'creditor', which in law could be 'CPP' or 'Liberty' or your notorious debt collector PS&P, or your client, or the landowner or some other entity. So the NTK is not properly given and is a nullity which has not established keeper liability under the POFA 2012.

4 - You use an unsupervised 'self ticketing' regime and the signage on site is unclear. I believe you have breached the BPA Code of Practice in respect of both issues.

5 - It is believed that, if CPP do have a contract then these typically contain the following clauses which show your ticket to be wholly without merit:

(a) that CPP will pay the client a percentage from the 'revenue' of each ticket (so good luck explaining to POPLA how 'revenue' can suddenly equate to 'loss' and how paying a bounty fits within that model).

(b) that CPP will cancel a 'Charge Notice' issued for not displaying a permit, when shown a valid permit (this is attached, so if you now do not cancel this 'charge' then you will also struggle to explain the rejection letter at POPLA stage when I will require you to supply your full unredacted contract).

I require CPP to cancel this ticket and don't bother me again; you are aware that this car is issued with a staff permit and so is entitled to be parked onsite, whoever the driver/passenger is on any occasion. My challenge is based on the assertion that your parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss to yourself or the landowner. In every case where a motorist has raised this issue, POPLA have accepted the appeal. This and the other points raised above tell you that there is no prospect of your charge being upheld at POPLA.

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further - to POPLA stage, debt collector 'threatogram' harassment or small claims court - I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. and damages for distress for harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail. The position will be the same if ever you issue this car with a ticket in future.

yours faithfully.


the keeper's name




(attach a copy of the renewed staff permit, never mind if the date isn't relevant to the parking event).