Should parents be allowed to take kids out of school for a holiday?

norfolkmum

Galaxy68 wrote: »

Holidays during term time should be avoided at all cost, disrupting a child's education is a bad idea. I have children and have never taken them out of school for a holiday, they're now at top universities, would they have got the same results had I disrupted their education every year to take them away? Maybe but maybe not. A child's education should be the most important thing, it sets the path for the rest of their future.

I always took mine out of school for a week's holiday (only in the UK, still couldn't afford abroad even out of season). I always booked it away from exams or anything important, the head teacher even said to me that they would learn more in a week's holiday than they would in a month at school. They learn other things on a holiday, just as important as academic work. There would have been no way we could have had any sort of holiday in the school break.


My daughter is now going to a top university also, and got all As and A*s in her exams. My other 2 children are headed the same way.

RAS

This but holidays in term time would only be agreed for kids whose current attendance record was very high (perhaps 95%)

I know one "child" who has ill health problems every year on the same day, which co-incides with the local show. This is the day when all the local kids get together and they all compete in different classes.

Why should it be impossible for the less well off parents or those whose holiday time is dictated to ever experience an overseas holiday (or even a UK one in some instance) whilst those from better off families can go abroad every year? Just another way to stunt the experience of those from less well off families.

I went on two school exchanges at great cost to my single parent but otherwise did not go abroad until my twenties. That massively improved my confidence, let me see art and lifestyles that were very different and develop a much more sophisticated attitude to food and drink.

Mof wrote: »

As a teacher,with 38 years experience, I believe that education is far broader than mere schooling.

For children, travelling to another environment, especially abroad, can be a far greater educational experience than spending the equivalent 5 or 10 days in a classroom.

Even on a holiday to Benidorm, which was used as an example on another thread, children would experience a new language, culture, climate, currency and (hopefully!) cuisine which would be a far more intense learning experience than they would have gained in school during that time.

The extended time spent together as a family could also benefit children who may have too little time with their parents during the rest of the year.

Education does not involve filling children up with a knowledge for 40 weeks of the year and it is a fallacy to claim pupils would not “catch up” on what they missed.

In an ideal world, of course, parents should only take their children on holiday out of term time but, if finances do not allow that to happen, it should be recognised that children can gain more educationally from a holiday than they would from time spent seated in a classroom.

Mojisola

Here's a Headteacher who wants to take things one step further -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-25827274
Emerson Valley School in Milton Keynes plans to impose the £60 fixed penalty if children miss registration 10 times in a 12-week term.

That isn't 10 absences, that's just being a few minutes late and not being there for registration.

FR_262

PlymouthMaid wrote: »

I think allowing a week or two at sensible parts of term on the understanding that the child will catch up at home is fair but only for those children whose attendance and behaviour is good. If the catch up work is not done then permission can be refused the following year..

How can catch up work be done? Do all parents who take their children out of school have a science lab in their house or on holiday to teach A level science? How about other A level subjects? Or would you expect teachers to find the time to do an individual work pack and explain it to the parents first so the parents can teach the child while on holiday? If the child misses 2 weeks off school, how can they catch up in the 2 weeks on holiday and have a holiday?

Get real.

Some parents take their children out of school when important exams are being taken.

When a child misses school they miss the teaching they get off the teacher, they miss out on the resources provided by school, they miss out on the social bonding with their peers, and in some cases they never catch up.

lostinrates

Mof wrote: »

Even on a holiday to Benidorm, which was used as an example on another thread, children would experience a new language, culture, climate, currency and (hopefully!) cuisine which would be a far more intense learning experience than they would have gained in school during that time.

I think you are being optimistic about the scope some holidays offer.

I know people who have LIVED in Spain, stumble over even the word 'hola' or 'por favor' and know NOTHING about Spanish cuisine. They talk a lot about Spanish culture and when it comes down to it they seem to believe it involves siesta, beaches and time for family.

There are many holidays in Spain that would do everything you say.

Dad_to_4_little_monkeys

As with all topics of this scale, it hits the emotions of everyone and the issues become clouded and people go off on tangents.
There are many issues, all important, that crossover, and IMO are summarised as follows:
1. The discretion based holiday system, which in the main was working and had done so for many decades, was changed by law and enforced last September. This was primarily driven at tackling those who abused the system, but is now affecting everyone with a school-aged child, who have never have done so, but is now considering an unauthorised absence for their children. People are only now seeing how this is affecting them personally.
2. The fine system/surcharges being applied are confusing for the majority, as differing tales, myths and gossip are clogging the social media channels. How much per parent/child/absence, how is a total calculated, who imposes the fine, how are the collected funds allocated, penalties and processes for non-payment, Councils not imposing the law change and why (Leeds?). There simply needs to be open clarity on it for such a national debate.
3. The change in law, appears to be coincidentally aligned with holiday companies increasing prices in peak times beyond that of previous years. Some say that this is simply business, whilst there is a strong argument that this is "lazy business", whilst some holiday businesses are trebling the prices of a like-for-like holiday with no additional tangible benefit gained for the inflated cost. No reasonable person would expect a flat rate across the year, but the current HM Government petition seeking change to cap the % of the amount a holiday can be increased (as a decent compromise) has now reached over 120,000, making it eligible for backbench debate. The Facebook group HPI - Holiday Price Increase is taking this debate further by a considered and focused argument.
I'm certain there are many parents who use the "break with the kids" excuse to enjoy themselves and unwind, but the majority like to spend time together and a holiday is often the perfect setting for this. A holiday may well a luxury, but then so are TV's, mobile phones, designer/branded clothes and booze and cigarettes - but no one is telling you when to consume these. Sometimes I'll give my money freely, other times the companies have to earn it!
Everyone wants a fair system, choice and a reasonable cost in having a choice. Greedy companies should be careful with customers spending patterns, and that loyalty is earned not automatically given! Personal swipes about who can afford it, who can't, who's teaching their kids more on holiday, changing holiday dates, have lost sight of the bigger picture. One step at a time ....

kingmonkey

Parents should make an educational case to the headteacher for approval + the children should provide a portfolio of what they have learnt?

happyinflorida

I think having a holiday is very important - if a family can afford to do it. I am disgusted that the holiday companies increase their charges astronomically during school holidays.


I would love to be able to take my children abroad at a time when it's not so hot.


When my kids were in school we went on holidays in the summer holidays and were fried alive - we're pale. I would have much preferred to have been able to take them during a time when it was warm but not boiling.


I only took my children out of school once, when they were in primary school. This was many years ago when there wasn't the big problem like there is now. I happened to find a one week holiday to Majorca, all inclusive for £159 each for one week. It was the best holiday we've ever had! I wrote a letter to the headmaster - this was done the night before, when I came across the holiday and we left the next morning! I met the HT at the door when I was putting the envelope through the letter box and explained it to him and he understood and wished us a happy holiday.


I learnt today that some poor dad, that took his daughter away to Pontins for a short break, during term time has been fined and got a criminal record - that is wrong IMO on every level. He said he couldn't afford to do it during the school holidays.


If people can get a cheap break to get away on a holiday with their kids it is really a wonderful experience for them all and I wouldn't want to deprive any family of that chance.


If a kids ill they'll be off school so what's the difference?


The holiday companies are so bad to charge so much more.


People should not be made into criminals for something like this, that is wrong on every level.

PlymouthMaid

FR_262 wrote: »

How can catch up work be done? Do all parents who take their children out of school have a science lab in their house or on holiday to teach A level science? How about other A level subjects? Or would you expect teachers to find the time to do an individual work pack and explain it to the parents first so the parents can teach the child while on holiday? If the child misses 2 weeks off school, how can they catch up in the 2 weeks on holiday and have a holiday?

Get real.

Some parents take their children out of school when important exams are being taken.

When a child misses school they miss the teaching they get off the teacher, they miss out on the resources provided by school, they miss out on the social bonding with their peers, and in some cases they never catch up.

To be honest I was thinking of primary aged children as personally I think any secondary aged child who is hoping to get decent GCSEs would not be missing 2 week's schooling. At A level I definitely would not expect them to be absent so no need for science labs.

I was a teacher in Primary and unless a parent is especially dopey they could easily help their child cover the important work missed which is really just the maths, English and maybe science ideas.

In my opinion, any parent who would not be concerned about the work missed is exactly the sort of parent who should not be allowed to pull their children out of school. I would hate to think that by taking my children on holiday they would then be disadvantaged at school and possibly upset at not understanding what the class were doing.

It wouldn't make much more work on the whole for the teacher other than remembering to hand over some photocopied resources as you would not be 'catching up' with the non-core subjects usually. If the child didn't play catch up at the time then the poor teacher will no doubt end up with them in some sort of booster class anyway when they fail practice SATS or whatever they are calling it these days.

Mergic

Holiday prices are just basic economics. If they charged a flat price, they would have empty planes and hotel rooms out of school holiday times and there would be a riot of people trying to get the relatively few places available in the school holidays. Holiday companies will make little or no profit out of peak times (and sometimes even make a loss, but a smaller loss than if they hotel was empty) and then make a good profit at the peak times. If they didn't make the profits in the holidays many companies would go out of business and then there would be fewer holiday options, pushing prices up further year round.

I'm not sure how local authorities are allowed to administer education penalty notices. My local authority issues a warning if a child misses 5 days (10 half day sessions) in the first half of the term and then will be fined if their child misses another day in the following monitoring period without documentary evidence. (Arriving after the register has been closed counts as an absence and is detrimental to the child's education). This means a parent could actually take a child out of education for a holiday and not get a fine as long as they ensure they don't have any further unauthorised time off school. It seems some authorities do not operate their system like this and will issue a penalty notice without any warning.

I can understand some parents feel the need to take their children out of school for a holiday, but there is clear evidence that this does affect a child's education. I'd also agree that there is potential for holidays to be educational and/or nurturing. But many parents will be more interested in them getting a tan than gaining positive family time or considering the impact on the child's education.