DVLA is screwing us again

Johno100

missile wrote: »

I doubt that will happen. That would be a political hot potato.

The cost of fuel and especially diesel is already higher than any other EU country. To further increase excise duty on fuel would further disadvantage our haulage industry. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107374/Fuel-tax-British-motorists-pay-60-duty-VAT-petrol.html

I think on the contrary it would help our haulage industry, it would put them on more of a level playing field with foreign hauliers (that don't pay any VED) who would contribute more of their fair share of tax.

Other benefits of scrapping VED and adding it to fuel include:-

Bigger engine vehicles would pay more;
Lower mileage vehicles would pay less;
Reduce tax avoidance;
Reduce administrative burdens / costs for the Government & Police; Eliminate VED / VAT duplication - as exempt vehicle classes (i.e. Ambulances / Disabled) could benefit from the provision of VAT exemption on fuel.

Joe_Horner

Trebor16 wrote: »

That's no different to the system now. If you have to buy a tax disc in the middle of the month it always starts at the start of the month you buy it in.

Yes, I understand that. But, at the moment, if you buy a car with tax then the government have only been paid once for that month.

Under the new system, the seller will have already paid for that month (and won't get a refund of the remaining days) and you will also, as now, have to pay for that month including the part that the seller had already paid for. So they will receive a FULL month extra tax every time a car is sold (except for a few unusual circumstances like disabled / historic / cars off road before sale / going off road after).

In missle's calculations in the OP, he'd worked out the the "extra" that will be paid paid based on the average 1/2 a month that the seller won't get refunded. He should also have included the average 1/2 a month that the buyer will have to "pay for again".

Moto2

Johno100 wrote: »

.................. as exempt vehicle classes (i.e. Ambulances / Disabled) could benefit from the provision of VAT exemption on fuel.

Band A and other zero rated vehicles couldn't easily do that though

patman99

The way VED works at thew moment is that if you buy it on say, the 25th of the month, it starts from the 1st day of the following month. If you buy it prior to this, it starts from the 1st day of the month you are currently in.
If they have a 14 day period of grace and you buy a car on say, the 16th of the month, you could drive it around until the 25th and then Tax it.

Adding VED to fuel prices would see a large increase in the number of people making their own diesel from waste cooking oil (& black diesel from waste car oil, brake fluid and transmission fluid) on the quiet.

Trebor16

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Yes, I understand that. But, at the moment, if you buy a car with tax then the government have only been paid once for that month.

Under the new system, the seller will have already paid for that month (and won't get a refund of the remaining days) and you will also, as now, have to pay for that month including the part that the seller had already paid for. So they will receive a FULL month extra tax every time a car is sold (except for a few unusual circumstances like disabled / historic / cars off road before sale / going off road after).

In missle's calculations in the OP, he'd worked out the the "extra" that will be paid paid based on the average 1/2 a month that the seller won't get refunded. He should also have included the average 1/2 a month that the buyer will have to "pay for again".

If a seller takes the tax disc now mid month, he/she loses that month, so the government get one month. The buyer now has to buy a tax disc which is also backdated, so the government in such a situation are already getting one month twice.

I suspect most people do keep the tax disc to send back to get a refund so the impact of this change is not going to be that great.

paddedjohn

Trebor16 wrote: »

If a seller takes the tax disc now mid month, he/she loses that month, so the government get one month. The buyer now has to buy a tax disc which is also backdated, so the government in such a situation are already getting one month twice.

I suspect most people do keep the tax disc to send back to get a refund so the impact of this change is not going to be that great.

In my experience most people leave the tax on the car when selling it, this new method of taxation will prevent that.

Joe_Horner

Trebor16 wrote: »

I suspect most people do keep the tax disc to send back to get a refund so the impact of this change is not going to be that great.

My experience (and checking car adverts tends to confirm this) is that most people leave the tax on when they sell - because it makes the sale easier and they'd rather shift the car easily than faff about for the sake of a few quid.

Under the new system, all those cars currently sold as "T&T" will net the gubmint an extra month's tax. That's quite apart from all the other problems with this plan for many people.

missile

Andy_L wrote: »

Diesels cheaper, except for Italy. Unleaded is far more comparable, were about 5th, however its so close that its very sensitive to euro/sterling exchange rate fluctuations.

http://www.theaa.com/resources/Documents/pdf/motoring-advice/fuel-reports/december2013.pdf

In a UK/euro haulage comparison fuel price is only part of the story - what about corporation tax rates & employee costs which, AIUI, are higher in the Euro zone

I would suggest you have misinterpreted your own link. Per the AA table every EU country is cheaper for diesel than the UK @ 138.6P per litre with the exception of Italy @ 139.57P per litre. as you said unleaded is more comparable.

I don't know where you get your figures for corporation tax & employee costs etc? For example, corporation tax in Ireland is lower than UK and lorry drivers in Spain are paid less than their UK counterparts. However, I don't really want to get into that debate.

My point was that fuel duty is high in relation to other EU states and to increase it further would surely be a vote loser.

Ultrasonic

As a non-commercial driver I think I'd support scrapping VED completely and replacing it with increased tax on fuel. It would make the whole process simpler and achieve the same goals for the government - the raising of revenue and the ability to encourage people to drive more economical vehicles. With the added advantage over the current system that it would be real world economy that ultimately matters, not the official test results.

However, I appreciate this issue is complicated by the likes of the haulage industry, about which I know too little to comment.

Trebor16

How much would they add to petrol duty to compensate for scrapping duty? In 2010 about £5 billion pounds was raised from road tax. Having had a look around it would seem something like 32 billion litres of petrol and diesel are sold per year so to recover the £5 billion which would no longer be raised from road tax it would mean an increase of 15p per litre on fuel duty.

That would have a big impact on those who have already bought economical cars in the £20 and £30 road tax band. My own car is in band C (£30 a year) and based on my consumption for 2013 of 750 litres it would mean paying out £112.50 instead of £30. That's on an annual mileage last year of 8970.

Which government would be prepared to do that, given all the efforts over the years to steer us all into more economical cars?