PCN for parking in my own space

Clairar

Hi,

I've been lurking the forums for advice for a couple of weeks but I don't seem to be getting anywhere so am creating this thread in the hopes I can get some personalised advice as I'm getting rather stressed.

I received a PCN whilst parked in my own parking space at home. The property management agency set up a permit system and I was displaying the permit as they requested. However, it has never stuck correctly to my windscreen and appears to have escaped into my air conditioning...

The permit was displayed to my knowledge when I left my car, and I had several days off where I didn't leave the house. I didn't notice that the permit had gone wherever it's gone or that I'd even got a PCN until my partner noticed it attached to my windscreen.

I contacted the property management agency on the advice of my landlord, as my landlord confirmed that the space is rented by him to me as part of my rental agreement and that he had not signed up to the permit system (he had only noticed himself on visiting to show someone another flat). The property management agency seemed helpful enough but I didn't hear from them for over a week until they e-mailed to say the directors of the company are not prepared to rescind the charge.

Is it wrong to take this any further? There was likely nobody else in the car park at the time of the PCN being issued as it was midday on a weekday. So I think £60 is a ridiculous amount to expect me to pay since I've not cost them that. Aside from that, the space belongs to my landlord not them, right? And he hasn't asked them to act this way on his behalf. Nor have I actually ever signed anything to say I agree to the permit system. My landlord is contacting them himself but I don't hold out much hope, and the charge will go up to £100 tomorrow as it's been two weeks. I'm fully expecting to have to appeal to the parking company themselves, but is it worth doing this or not?

Any advice gratefully received, sorry for the ramble.

Redx

read this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4835943

then this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

that may help you a lot

no its not justified , there is no loss so nothing to pay so yes you appeal

bod1467

Read the NEWBIES thread. And search this forum for own space - there have been any number of similar threads in the last few months.

Clairar

Thanks guys, I had read the newbie thread and a few 'own space' ones originally which is what had lead me to contact the property management agency. I honestly believed they'd see how ridiculous they were being but they didn't. It's the whole waiting for NTK that confuses me, should I do that since I've had various dealings with the property management company who will no doubt know that I'm the driver (although I've not explicitly said so)? Or just go for the appeal? I'm just a bit overwhelmed by all the info, but I am trying to work my way through it. Apologies, I know newbs creating similar threads are annoying.

Hot_Bring

Ah the good old "some new made up rules trump the lease / tenancy agreement" argument.

What you do depends on how much of a fight you want. If it's the easy life then use the standard set of rules detailed in the stickies already given to you.

If you want a fight you should still do the above ( it WILL get it cancelled ) but you might want cause the managing agents some bother. Write back to them pointing out your tenancy agreement ( which will be based on your landlords lease ) doesn't detail any requirement to display a permit and so makes the demand invalid and unlawful. Tell them that if the PPC ( you haven't named them on here - you REALLY should ! ) continue with their action you will hold the Managing Agents equally liable for the ensuing harassment.

martmonk

setting aside the landowner/Managing Agent/PPC issue and answering the OP's last question;

Yes - wait for the notice to keeper to arrive through the post if as you say you have not explicitly outed yourself as the driver.

Then appeal as advised.

Clairar

PPC is JD Parking. My tenancy agreement doesn't mention my parking space at all, I should point out. However landlord has confirmed it is mine whilst I'm here so that counts for something, right? Either way there is nothing suggesting I have to display a permit. Landlord has never instructed me to do so. I want to cause as much trouble as possible but was losing my fight a bit so thanks very much for helping to restore it. I'll keep you posted

Redx

the PCN wont be for parking in your own space, but for not displaying a valid permit in that space

either way, they have the BPA logo on their website so wait for the NTK , appeal , then beat them at popla and cost them money too

if you wish to take other measures over this with the landlord or the managing company, then do so as well , as they are jointly liable for your predicament , permit or no permit

Coupon-mad

Clairar wrote: »

PPC is JD Parking. My tenancy agreement doesn't mention my parking space at all, I should point out. However landlord has confirmed it is mine whilst I'm here so that counts for something, right? Either way there is nothing suggesting I have to display a permit. Landlord has never instructed me to do so. I want to cause as much trouble as possible but was losing my fight a bit so thanks very much for helping to restore it. I'll keep you posted

Put this into Google and read the 2013 threads that result:

JD Parking site:forums.pepipoo.com

I just clicked on a couple and it seems you can expect a late letter from PCS in about 2 months time. Read a few now. IMHO it's always hassle to try to 'appeal' to a debt collector like PCS, as they can't issue POPLA codes and they will try to say some old rubbish like you are too late to appeal (but of course, the keeper is NOT too late to appeal!). This will all make it hard work for you though and you will end up having to complain to the BPA to get a POPLA code out of them. If you are up for that then wait!

If you are still within 28 days of the windscreen PCN and would rather not have to complain to the BPA to get a POPLA code later on, I would consider appealing NOW as the registered keeper (NOT AS THE DRIVER). This is covered in the NEWBIES FAQs thread where I talk about 'small PPCs like P4Parking' who also play the game of not bothering with a NTK and going straight to a random debt collector letter, and trying to wriggle out of POPLA at that stage. I explain in that sticky thread that there is something to be gained by appealing now to avoid the debt collector rubbish and having to beg/complain to get a POPLA code.

If the windscreen PCN was over 26 days ago or so and you could not be sure to get your appeal in before day 28, then WAIT for the first letter after all.

Clairar

I hope it's ok to resurrect this thread, I just thought I should let you all know that my parking charge was cancelled. I ended up having to appeal to the PPC because the property management company refused to rescind the ticket. They insist the land is theirs and not my landlord's, some nitty gritty contract business and I got bored of arguing!

Mostly borrowed my appeal from various threads on here, stating the lack of gpeol, signage etc. Not sure if they're supposed to do this, but the appeals handler (not the PPC but a supposed debt recovery company) e-mailed back a week after I sent the above and asked why I felt the signs were inadequate. They said I had two weeks to reply for my appeal to even be considered. Fired off a sarcastic run through of their various signage failings...12 days later they sent me a text saying to call their 0844 number urgently. I did (found a non-0844 number, mind), and they said "Are you calling to pay?". Gotta love the optimism! Explained that the appeal was still open but they said they hadn't received my 2nd e-mail re: signs and said I had two days to send it again. Seems they'll try anything to get out of actually looking at the appeal!

Anyway, I sent the e-mail again and received a quick reply basically saying they'd cancel the charge on this occasion but not to be such a naughty girl again...no run through on if the accepted my points or anything, is this normal?

Now considering complaining to the BPA about the whole thing as I think it's wrong for JD to be be passing things to companies purporting to deal in debt recovery before appeal is even completed. Or is there any point?

Anyway, just thought you may appreciate the update, another win for Moneysavingexpert! I can't thank you enough for the advice on here, it's been invaluable.

Coupon-mad

Well done!