Rejecting a used car

withthebestwillintheworld

Hello there dear forum users. I hope I can explain this well.

* I bought a used car recently, 2.5 year old with a fair few miles on it.
* Bought it on the basis that one of the major parts of the car would be fixed and I'd noticed it on the test drive.
* Garage fix the car and I pick it up
* On the drive home I lose control of the car and have to pull over. I put this down to getting used to the feel
* Put it in to my garage the next day and it is found to have excessively worn brake discs, front shocks are gone, illegal tyre with a nail in it and a puncture and a track rod end with excessive play

* I immediately stop using the car and let the company know I want to reject it the next day as it has been deemed dangerous to drive
* The company tell me they do not do refunds and refuse to do anything until they have it back at their workshop. They tell me I do not have any statutory rights in this case.
* They say they will be fixing the car then maybe, possibly, if it was extreme they MIGHT give me a refund. But that would be up to the director. That was the director I was talking to.
* I say I cannot get the car to them because it is not roadworthy.
* They tell me they would assess it but only if it came to them
* I offer for them to come to my garage and inspect it but they refuse stating that it needed to be with them so they could fix it.
* I ask again for a refund on the grounds the car is dangerous to drive and thus unsatisfactory.
* They refuse and say they will do nothing until they have it. They tell me I will have to go to court and if I do I will be without a car for 6 months so I should take it and get it fixed.
* I offer for them to send the RAC to the inspect the car. If it is found to be roadworthy I would pay for the inspection. They refuse on the grounds that they are not RAC members.

* I formally reject the car and then get an independent MOT which fails on the nail in the tyre and the track rod end. The advisory notes say it is dangerous.
* I ask the garage for a response and they say that advisories are advisories and that he'd asked 2 other mechanics who said it could not fail on the track rod end.
* I ask for the name of the garage that said that. He says it's not relevant.
* I ask what the consequence would be for them if they were found to be selling an unroadworthy car.
* They say they haven't got time for all these questions and a track rod end is £20. If I'd have just let them have it I could have had it back by now.
* I point out that they have breached one of the points on their own contract which states that the car is sold in a roadworthy condition.
* He replies by saying he wouldn't know about that as he is not a legal man.

Looks like I may have to go to court on this one on the grounds that they have supplied a car that is unroadworthy and could have caused a serious accident.

Any opinions on this?

forgotmyname

If the item was deemed dangerous it should not be an advisory. Especially something like a steering joint.

Which garage told you the shocks and brakes are worn? Do you have the figures for those?

Possibly the reason you lost control was the fact you picked up a puncture on the way home?

Unless you can prove the nail was in the tyre before you bought it and that the track rod end should have failed the MOT your going to struggle.

Get an RAC inspection done yourself and then you will have proper proof of the cars condition and actually have something to start from.

But the tyre may have been your doing. And the trackrod maybe worn but not a failure so the car is road legal.

withthebestwillintheworld

The_Gambler wrote: »

Worn brake discs and shocks, were they an mot fail too?

Other than the nail, how was the tyre illegal?
Did you not spot illegal tyres before you bought it?
Could you not have picked up the nail on the way home?

As I recall the law states you must give them a chance to fix it first, I maybe wrong.

Just a start no doubt others will know more.

Thank you. The law doesn't state you have to let them fix it. The law states that you can choose one of three remedies; refund, repair, replace. If you choose a refund you have to prove the damage to the car was there at the time of sale.

The brake discs were not a fail. Don't know why, they have a 2mm lip on them. There are no guidelines for the wear apparently so it's up to the tester.

withthebestwillintheworld

forgotmyname wrote: »

If the item was deemed dangerous it should not be an advisory. Especially something like a steering joint.

Which garage told you the shocks and brakes are worn? Do you have the figures for those?

Possibly the reason you lost control was the fact you picked up a puncture on the way home?

Unless you can prove the nail was in the tyre before you bought it and that the track rod end should have failed the MOT your going to struggle.

Get an RAC inspection done yourself and then you will have proper proof of the cars condition and actually have something to start from.

But the tyre may have been your doing. And the trackrod maybe worn but not a failure so the car is road legal.

Hi, thanks.

"If the item was deemed dangerous it should not be an advisory. Especially something like a steering joint."

It isn't. The MOT it had done is not a pass certificate, it's a notice of failure. The track rod end is a dangerous failure. The advisory notes expand on the failure and advise that the car is in a dangerous condition.

"Which garage told you the shocks and brakes are worn?"

My garage, the one I put it into. And they are. Big time. I wouldn't know what that means though until it was pointed out to me.

"Do you have the figures for those?"

What does that mean?

"Possibly the reason you lost control was the fact you picked up a puncture on the way home?"

Possibly but I highly doubt it given the excessive wear in which the tyre was nearly to the ply. Another reason for the issue of failure on the MOT.

"Get an RAC inspection done yourself and then you will have proper proof of the cars condition and actually have something to start from."

I was thinking I may have this done, essentially it's a third opinion. The garage have made it clear that they will not issue a refund and when they get their hands on the car they intend to inspect it and fix it. My understanding of the law is they cannot do that and have to at least entertain my request for a refund.

"But the tyre may have been your doing. And the trackrod maybe worn but not a failure so the car is road legal."

The track rod is a failure. The MOT is not a pass certificate, it's a failure it to issue a certificate on the grounds that the track rod is dangerously unsafe. The car is definitely not road legal.

Thanks for your help.

FlameCloud

withthebestwillintheworld wrote: »

Thank you. The law doesn't state you have to let them fix it. The law states that you can choose one of three remedies; refund, repair, replace. If you choose a refund you have to prove the damage to the car was there at the time of sale.

The brake discs were not a fail. Don't know why, they have a 2mm lip on them. There are no guidelines for the wear apparently so it's up to the tester.

The choice of remedy is down to the supplier, not the customer.

If the car was too unroadworthy to drive to them, how did you drive to the MOT garage?

colino

The trader has the right to repair, refund or replace, not you. Do you really think they will go to the expense of recovering the car back to their place for examination on your, or a rival garages, say so?
Tell you what, pop down to Tesco, buy a huge new TV and then phone them and tell them you want your money back because a neighbour thinks it looks a bit funny.

john_white

withthebestwillintheworld wrote: »

Thank you. The law doesn't state you have to let them fix it. The law states that you can choose one of three remedies; refund, repair, replace. If you choose a refund you have to prove the damage to the car was there at the time of sale.

The brake discs were not a fail. Don't know why, they have a 2mm lip on them. There are no guidelines for the wear apparently so it's up to the tester.

What do you want from this forum, you have clearly stated what you believe the law to be, and I suspect if anyone says differently you will just ignore it.


Trailer it to the supplying garage get it roadworthy and take it from there.

Joe_Horner

I smell several rats in that story.........

atrixblue.-MFR-.

OP hasn't listed what it failed on and what was advised.


failed on track end excessive play dangerous


advised on the rest?


wich suggests to me that the shocks are not gone nor are the springs. they either fail by leaking or snapped/split spring or worn out arm bush.


discs get lips on them, my 63 plate proceed is starting to make a lip on the discs and its only done 400miles its normal to have a lip in the disc where the pad is seated its how much of the pad is left and the thickness of the disc that is what fails mot.

so if we push the advisories aside for now (these are bargaining chips with the dealer) then it only failed on a rack end, wich to me is not a major failure of the car and not a basis to reject it. take it back have the rack end done it really is a cheap part to replace. and come to an agreement about the advisories.


I understand you frustration, but in terms of a white goods product the hindge of the fridge door is knackered where the manufacturer can send someone out to replace it and all is good again.

vaio

The repair/refund/replace options only kick in once the car has been accepted and the buyer can reject and get refund under SoG before "acceptance".

Acceptance is a moveable feast, it needs to be long enough to allow inspection to make sure the goods conform to contract but short enough to allow certainty for the seller.

I'd have thought that on a car a couple of days would still be in the examination time.

There is also the issue of selling an unroadworthy car which is a criminal offence although who enforces that I'm not sure.

Is there any credit (card or finance deal) involved in the purchase?

Basically it all depends on what is reasonable in the circumstances

Have a read of http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file25486.pdf

is a guide for traders and gives all the details you need, second hand goods & cars on page 17.

forgotmyname

"Which garage told you the shocks and brakes are worn?"

My garage, the one I put it into. And they are. Big time. I wouldn't know what that means though until it was pointed out to me.

The brakes maybe worn. But not illegal and may last many thousands of
miles yet. If they fit new brakes by the time you get home you will have
used them so they will be worn. There are minimum limits before they
need to be changed.

"Do you have the figures for those?"

What does that mean?

They are telling the brakes are worn. But how worn?

Discs have a minimum thickness. So will the pads. There maybe enough thickness on the brakes to pass next years MOT.
Have they not provided you with the figures?

The car failed its MOT on a track rod end. Is this an MOT you did after buying?
Or sold with an old MOT or no MOT?

Your bit about no guidelines is incorrect. A lot of things are down to the tests own judgement. But discs and pads have a minimum thickness.