Ebay auctioned refund now seller wants item back!?

soolin

LittleAoife wrote: »

Sorry, I misunderstood. Well the seller now has £300 and I have the item. Let's hope that's the end of it!
Although I hope for my sake they don't take this further if what you say is true.:eek:

I wouldn't worry. Seller told you to keep it , they have not fully refunded and they are now threatening you with going to court because they wish to change their mind?

Yes I can see that working :money:

samsmoot

Road_Hog wrote: »

Now I understand that perhaps you feel the seller wasn't the best in the world, but the point that I was making is, the person I quoted was wrong, the item is not yours, because he says so or ebay says so and people need to understand this, because they could end up with a court summons.

Well done for reiterating - very important correction.


So, you still have the pram? Why not now return it and request a refund? I feel that you would still be able to reject the goods - because initially you acted quickly enough, but were halted due to eBay's process and the seller's address changing.


County Court is always best approached as a Claimant, as opposed to being a Defendant. With that I mind I would maybe reject the goods, demand a refund, then, if necessary, claim for the money via a small claim.


Once the seller receives the item they will have a duty of care over it, so if you lose in court it will still be yours. One aspect of losing is the expense - but that'll anyway be an issue if the seller takes you to court. If that does happen, the fact of the goods being substandard may lose them the claim - £300 might be considered a fair price to have paid.


I did try to get to grips with all this but it is a bit complicated so sorry if I'm giving advice but have missed something. The seller may be serious in their intention to make a claim, so that can be avoided by paying under protest and without prejudice. Then the buyer is free to make their claim under the relevant legislation and with reference (if beneficial) to eBay's T&Cs. The seller seems to have acted in bad faith throughout, so if court happened they probably wouldn't be looking good from the start. If it's you that's making the claim they may find it a lot trickier to convince a judge that they are in the right.


Anyway, it's something I'd consider - if only to help avoid a judgement against me.

theonlywayisup

samsmoot wrote: »

Well done for reiterating - very important correction.


So, you still have the pram? Why not now return it and request a refund? I feel that you would still be able to reject the goods - because initially you acted quickly enough, but were halted due to eBay's process and the seller's address changing.


County Court is always best approached as a Claimant, as opposed to being a Defendant. With that I mind I would maybe reject the goods, demand a refund, then, if necessary, claim for the money via a small claim.


Once the seller receives the item they will have a duty of care over it, so if you lose in court it will still be yours. One aspect of losing is the expense - but that'll anyway be an issue if the seller takes you to court. If that does happen, the fact of the goods being substandard may lose them the claim - £300 might be considered a fair price to have paid.


I did try to get to grips with all this but it is a bit complicated so sorry if I'm giving advice but have missed something. The seller may be serious in their intention to make a claim, so that can be avoided by paying under protest and without prejudice. Then the buyer is free to make their claim under the relevant legislation and with reference (if beneficial) to eBay's T&Cs. The seller seems to have acted in bad faith throughout, so if court happened they probably wouldn't be looking good from the start. If it's you that's making the claim they may find it a lot trickier to convince a judge that they are in the right.


Anyway, it's something I'd consider - if only to help avoid a judgement against me.

Unfortunately you may have missed the buyer has repaid, albeit £300 and not the original purchase price.

samsmoot

I think that's been taken into account - the buyer did pay £300 so far - is that right?


That does seem to go against them as far as getting their money back, but the payment wasn't completely voluntary, I would say, as rejection of the goods was the initial intent.

Road_Hog

The upshot of this is, buyer receives item. Buyer pays full amount or rejects the item, or maybe negotiate a reduced price.


None of these things have happened. Buyer has used item and modified it (replacement parts).


Now this all might sound a bit cold hearted but it's the facts and it is how the district judge will see it.


His view is, you've accepted the item by using it and changing parts, there was no agreement for a reduced price, the item was not rejected, therefore payment in full is required.


What he won't award is Ebay and Paypal fees, because the seller would have had to pay them anyway. So all he can sue for is the difference between what was paid and what the selling price was.

samsmoot

Road_Hog wrote: »

The upshot of this is, buyer receives item. Buyer pays full amount or rejects the item, or maybe negotiate a reduced price.

None of these things have happened. Buyer has used item and modified it (replacement parts).

I would disagree that the item wasn't rejected:

'The item was damaged and I messages the seller asking if I could return the item. The seller firstly said yes but they would only refund me the item cost'

samsmoot

I have been thinking about this some more and it looks like there are a number of ways to go:


1. Do nothing
2. Pay up
3. Pay upon receiving a Claim
4. Defend any Claim made
5. Make a Counterclaim upon receiving a Claim
6. Make a Claim for the amount paid


No.1 might work - the seller isn't too professional by the sound of it so they may just leave it.


No.2 isn't what the OP wants to do.


No.3 will cost a lot more.


No.4 might be successful or might end up costing even more than No3.


No.5 could possibly result in success for the OP.


No.6 could work to the OP's advantage in many ways, but is a bit risky. I now realise that sending back the pram is unnecessary, as is paying the £100. Doing both would show 'good faith', but a Claim can be made regardless. Enforcement of any Judgement won't work if the seller can't be tracked, so that's a consideration if you went this way.


So, here's what I would actually do:


I would send a signed-for letter to the seller giving them 7 days to pay back your £300 in respect of the damaged and rejected goods which was paid under duress and (possibly unlawful?) threats of criminal prosecution.


I would then make a Money Claim Online for the amount owed.


This seller sounds rather dodgy and may be incapable of putting in a good Defence. They did a few things wrong which could be construed as negligent, especially not allowing the return because of their address issues and out-of-the-area problem, which were beyond the OP's control.


One thing that may appear to be detrimental to your Claim is that you did make use of the pram - but that was only after you were forced to keep it due to being unable to return it. It may be seen as a minor point or ignored or not noticed. I wouldn't let this put me off.


I understand, LittleAofie, that court in any form isn't something you would want, but if you have to attend it looks better if you are the complainant. Once you make the online Claim the seller may not even respond - in which case you can apply for Default Judgement. If a hearing is had you can turn up and just tell the truth - having already quoted in your submissions to the court the legal position - Sale of Goods Act, Distance Selling Regulations, eBays T&Cs - and the email correspondence.


Assuming it's a business seller you can have a Hearing near to where you live. If he sends a solicitor they may well be a bit rubbish, and so your side will probably look stronger. If he attends himself the judge can quiz him about some of the unreasonable behaviour. This in itself isn't a clincher - but as the Claimant, with the back up of the law, acting in good faith, who was initially promised - and received - a refund, and acted in accordance with the T&Cs and the seller's misguided instructions and bullying communications you would have a reasonable chance of the judge being sympathetic, I would think.


A Claim would cost around £40 to get started, plus maybe the same again if it goes to a hearing. I'd make the Claim - not necessarily because it's correct in law but because the seller may be incapable of defending it properly.

Road_Hog

samsmoot wrote: »

I would disagree that the item wasn't rejected:

'The item was damaged and I messages the seller asking if I could return the item. The seller firstly said yes but they would only refund me the item cost'

I would disagree that the item was rejected. The buyer still has it and has modified it. It hasn't been sent back.


As a private seller, there is no compulsion in law to refund the shipping costs. Now, you have to forget any Ebay rules here. You're in front of a district judge that is only interested in British law, not what Ebay thinks.


Now, you can argue with me all day long, but I have experience of the county court system and I know how judges think. It will go something like this:


Did you send it back for a refund? Have you used it? Have you removed parts of it and changed it? Have you paid the full price for it?


He isn't interested in hearing excuses about change of address or what Ebay policies are, only what British law applies. Case closed, pay up within 30 days or get a CCJ.


The only bright side for the OP, is that most people don't have the gonads to take anyone to court, so it is probably an empty threat.

QuackQuackOops

LittleAoife wrote: »

Last month I made a purchase on ebay. The item was damaged and I messages the seller asking if I could return the item. The seller firstly said yes but they would only refund me the item cost, I threatened to open a case with ebay and then the seller said they were no longer able to receive a package at their address so could I send it elsewhere ( to a different address). I asked on here if this was ok and was advised to say no and report it to ebay. Thankyou quack quack oops!
I had already opened a case so again asked the seller ( on the case messaging) if I could return the item for a refund, the seller again asked me again to post to an alternative address. I explained to the seller that I was not prepared to do this as it is not ebay policy and I would have no way of proving that they had received the return.
The seller replied saying ' if you send it to the original address it will be returned and you will not get your refund'.
I then asked ebay ( through the escalation) to advise me of what I should do. Ebay offered me a full refund due to non compliance of the seller and sent me an email saying I was right to refuse to return to a different address and that they had given me a full refund.
Now the seller has sent me an email asking me to return the item anyway.
What shall I do?? Before they said that they were not at that address, now they are asking me to return it. Can ebay take my refund back if I refuse to return it?.
I'm not trying to get something for free but I've been messed about so much and don't feel I should.
Of course if people thing I'm being mean I will send it back but then I've lost out on postage on top of all this agro??
Thanks

You keep the item and the money. You do not have to return the item to the seller.

It is possible that Ebay paid your refund anyway and it didnt come from the sellers account, so sending the item back to him would result in him having both the money and the item.

You followed all the correct advice and have received the refund fairly.

Ebay cannot take the money back from you.

QuackQuackOops

Road_Hog wrote: »

Sorry, but that isn't true. If you buy an item and then get a full refund, then it becomes the property of the seller.


Ebay terms and conditions don't overrule British law, despite what people may think.


The seller can sue you in a civil court, for the cost or even bring a criminal case against you for theft. Why do people think that ebay decides what is legal and what is not legal.

Sorry, but that isnt UK Law either.

Ebay dont decide what is legal. They only decide what their own rules are.

In this case, both the seller and buyer agreed to abide by Ebays rules and as such Ebay rewarded the buyer a refund as the seller refused to cooperate.

In terms of the Law, the item only has to be made available for the seller to collect once he has accepted the return.
However, this seller refused to accept it back.

It is not theft.

Please, dont talk nonsense, it doesnt help anyone.