TUPE and redundancy help

mandlebrot

Hi Guys,

My employer which is a big multinational has decided to outsource it's IT services. Given that this affects about 200 people they put us on the 45 day consultation and said they were looking to TUPE us to the new providers.

Anyway the 45 days came and went with the odd update but nothing of real substance. Now at day 119 I have been told that I am to be made redundant and will finish this Friday but with PILON and a redundancy package etc.

Some people have been transferred to the new providers and some like me have been made redundant and yet others are still on consultation due to other providers not yet signing contracts etc. I know that the TUPE guide lines state "All employees should be transferred" but it does seem to have lots of get out clauses for employers. They have basically told me that the supplier only wants a fraction of the resource that my company has and as such some have to be made redundant.

1) Can they finish the consultation process for people at different times even though they were part of the same consultation group?

2) Can they make some people redundant from that consultation group (providing over the 45 days) even though the consultation continues for others in the group?

3) Can they get away with making some people redundant when transferring others under TUPE whom are in the same department and in this case even same team if they claim Economic reasons for example?

Regards

Mandlebrot

daveca

mandlebrot wrote: »

Hi Guys,

My employer which is a big multinational has decided to outsource it's IT services. Given that this affects about 200 people they put us on the 45 day consultation and said they were looking to TUPE us to the new providers.

Anyway the 45 days came and went with the odd update but nothing of real substance. Now at day 119 I have been told that I am to be made redundant and will finish this Friday but with PILON and a redundancy package etc.

Some people have been transferred to the new providers and some like me have been made redundant and yet others are still on consultation due to other providers not yet signing contracts etc. I know that the TUPE guide lines state "All employees should be transferred" but it does seem to have lots of get out clauses for employers. They have basically told me that the supplier only wants a fraction of the resource that my company has and as such some have to be made redundant.

1) Can they finish the consultation process for people at different times even though they were part of the same consultation group?

2) Can they make some people redundant from that consultation group (providing over the 45 days) even though the consultation continues for others in the group?

3) Can they get away with making some people redundant when transferring others under TUPE whom are in the same department and in this case even same team if they claim Economic reasons for example?

Regards

Mandlebrot

I can't help with the other stuff, but I know this issue was raised the last time I was tupe'd and according to our union then the compnay could not use the excuse of the tupe itself or the wishes of the new company, so if they're making you redundant they have to justify it on their own ecconomic or organisational needs.

The company should have informed you who your tupe negotiators were also. Have you spoken to them?

Hope this helps. I'd suggest you get in touch with CAB

Dave

daveca

mandlebrot wrote: »

Hi Guys,

My employer which is a big multinational has decided to outsource it's IT services. Given that this affects about 200 people they put us on the 45 day consultation and said they were looking to TUPE us to the new providers.

Anyway the 45 days came and went with the odd update but nothing of real substance. Now at day 119 I have been told that I am to be made redundant and will finish this Friday but with PILON and a redundancy package etc.

Some people have been transferred to the new providers and some like me have been made redundant and yet others are still on consultation due to other providers not yet signing contracts etc. I know that the TUPE guide lines state "All employees should be transferred" but it does seem to have lots of get out clauses for employers. They have basically told me that the supplier only wants a fraction of the resource that my company has and as such some have to be made redundant.

1) Can they finish the consultation process for people at different times even though they were part of the same consultation group?

2) Can they make some people redundant from that consultation group (providing over the 45 days) even though the consultation continues for others in the group?

3) Can they get away with making some people redundant when transferring others under TUPE whom are in the same department and in this case even same team if they claim Economic reasons for example?

Regards

Mandlebrot

From the tssa site

http://www.tssa.org.uk/en/Your-union/your-workplace/employment-rights/tupe--a-guide-to-the-regulations.cfm

• neither the new employer nor the previous one may fairly dismiss an employee because of the transfer or a reason connected with it, unless the reason for the dismissal is an economic, technical or organisational reason entailing changes in the workforce. If there is no such reason, the dismissal will be unfair. If there is such a reason, and it is the cause or main cause of the dismissal, the dismissal will be fair provided an employment tribunal decides that the employer acted reasonably in the circumstances in treating that reason as sufficient to justify dismissal. If, in this case, there is a redundancy situation, the usual redundancy procedures will apply

mandlebrot

As far as I know my company carried out all negotiations with the outsource company themselves.

daveca

mandlebrot wrote: »

As far as I know my company carried out all negotiations with the outsource company themselves.

All companies in the UK are legally obliged to consult with representaives of the employees in a tupe situation. The consulation must consist of the reps, and the old & new employers. Your company should have made you aware of the idenity of these reps so you could address any issues you had directly to them.

Follow the link I supplied above for this & other info.

mandlebrot

Mmm that sounds interesting. We did have an appointed Rep who was basically one of the affected employee's. At no point was that Rep offered to take part in any meeting/communications with the outsource company. To my knowledge she wasn't even privy to the discussions between my employer and the new outsource company.

I've got to say I think they have been dodgy on quite a few points during this consultation period and talk about the stress of not knowing week to week if we have jobs for the 69 days proceeding the initial legal 45 day consultation period was very bad. Like I said earlier some people from the IT dept are still going through this process because they have basically broken up the dept among 3 different outsource companies and the other contracts haven't yet been signed but they finalised the contract for my section last week at which point they informed me I was to be made redundant along with some others whilst a few will be transferred to the new outsource company.

mandlebrot

They are now saying the the redundancy package that they are offering me is enhanced and that it is actually a settlement package. This wording hadn't been used before so I asked for clarification on what that meant and it turns out that they are basically trying to get me to sign away my right of appeal or legal action. They also tried to say that they are offering me this and chose to make me redundant because they are trying to protect my interest lol.

They actually said the words "We believe that if we transfer you to the new company, that the new company may decide to make you redundant and then they would only give you a statuary redundancy package therefore we have took the decision to make you redundant under enhanced terms in order to look out for your interests".

This stinks very bad to me. Apparently once they actually get their act together and give me the proper package details (I finish in 2 days) which so far they keep delaying, then I have 5 days to seek legal advice and sign it or I will lose the right to the enhancements and go back to statuary. I have now asked that they show me the difference. I have worked out the difference myself to be around 7,000. Should I take this or can I force them to transfer me and also get some compensation etc.

What are your thoughts?

getmore4less

IN the cases I have been involved in.

They TUPE every one over and the new company restructures on ETO grounds, the package for the transfer reflects the cost of the redundancy package(ie. the old company pays the new company to do the deed)

I think the old company are on very dodgy ground making you redundant and that's why they have changed tack with a compromise agreement.

Get some legal advice you may already have enough for a claim.

Check your home insurance.