Opinions on neutering

neveranymoney

Well, the Shadow pup finished her puppy classes on Wednesday night, complete with certificate and rosette. The class was mainly going over training, fun stuff like doing a down stay and a come with either no vocal commands or no movement, pups 'socialising' ie running amok and playing, discussing insurance, food, home health checks and breeding.

The trainer asked was anyone intending on breeding and two owners with !!!!!es said yes so she got one of the pups on to a table and whilst showing us how to check ears, teeth etc, she showed us how to tell when a female dog is about to come in to heat.

I said I wasn't breeding and would be having shadow neutered and wondered what the trainers views were on the best time to have a large breed dog 'done'.

Her advice is basically everything I have heard or seen whilst investigating this - that I should allow shadow to have a first season do that she is fully matured.

Now, I agree with this as I want what's best for her obviously, I've read all about dogs being stuck in the 'teenage phase' forever due to being neutered too young but I do have some concerns.

Firstly, some might remember I posted about the lab that lives behind us who is permanently outside (lives in garage, has a run and allowed in main garden occasionally - it makes me so sad when I think of him but that is another thread entirely) our back garden is the only secure place that shadow could toilet/play outside when in season and I am very concerned it would send the poor boy (I have no idea if he is entire or not) even more berserk and if shadow would try and get to him, it is a sturdy enough wooden slatted fence but I don't know if it could withstand two large labs trying to get to each other.

Secondly, I cannot open the front door without tripping over multitude dogs, my husband says that we would just have to walk her at odd hours 'somewhere quiet' but unless he had a couple of tickets to the moon, I can't think where as all the glens, fields and beaches are continually dog central, as are the streets. So is it really no walks for three weeks then? I don't know how all of us would cope with that as you can train and play until the cows come home, but nothing beats a race round a muddy field!

Although shadow is good and big now, you can tell that she has a bit of growing left in her, 6 months of age would take us up to end of February/beginning of March and I really don't think she would be mature by then but I don't think I could cope with three weeks of lock down either! She currently only gets about 20 mins on lead pavement walking due to her age but every other day is a good half hour belt in fields, she comes most places with us in the car and stands at the school gates etc and I think she would go out of her head being stuck in too.

Iain_L

Personally I would have her neutered now. I have not seen any compulsive evidence to suggest that dogs need to have one season prior to neutering and in fact many vets seem to suggest that neutering before the first season reduces the risk of mammary tumors even more than neutering later.

If you're not intending to breed from Shadow I would have her neutered as soon as the vet thinks she is old enough. What does your vet say?

Regards

Iain

GwylimT

We have had two female dogs, both were neutered before their first season, none of them could be described as hyperactive and I certainly don't think they were stuck in the teenage phase, they were both quite lazy and calm. They were a boxer and a cocker spaniel.

If you do let her have her first season and you want to use pads on her it might be a good idea to start using them in the house now for short stints so she can get used to them.

neveranymoney

At our vets, you see whatever vet is available at the time, and when we discussed it with the vet at shadows second jabs, the vet in question had told me she was dominant (due to the fact at 12 wks she was humping legs!) and that bigger dogs could be left incontinent due to early neutering and she would advise waiting until a first season. So I didn't know what end of me was up after that consult.

I would prefer an earlier neutering for my own sanity if I'm entirely honest but have a niggly feeling that I am being selfish.

Shadow is my husbands pride and joy (never mind me and his human children!) and I have to say, would be old school and would be more swayed than me by everything a doctor/vet/'expert' would tell him so he would prefer to wait but as I pointed out, it wouldn't be him stuck at home 24/7 for three weeks slowly crawling the walls!

joansgirl

I feel your pain and have your future problem. Bailie's 9 months now and came into season on New Years Eve. OMG, never, ever again. She drips everywhere, my carpet's trashed. She's been ill with diarrhoea. Her "bits" resemble a baboons bum. She pulls like a train, trying to get to the males. She points "it" at every dog that she sees. She smells. She's clingy. She's weeing for England, getting me up at 3.30am every night. It's a total nightmare and she's already been booked in for spaying at the beginning of May. The vet wasn't happy about me letting her have a season before spaying and said that there's no actual proof that having a season makes any difference at all.


HOWEVER........So long as it was just the one season to cope with I'd do it again the same way. 3-4 weeks of not inconsiderable inconvenience is worth it to know I've given her the best chance to develop.


Not all females are as bad as she's been, Shadow could well sail through it with little or no effect.


I wouldn't trust her not to go over the fence. They are determined little beggars. My mother in laws lab cross went over a 6' fence with ease when she was in season.


As for the other dogs about, I don't know. There's only so much walking the other way you can do when you've got a stubborn female on the end of the lead. You can buy sprays to mask the smell and discourage males but I don't know how effective they are. I haven't bothered. Bailie's not too big, about 22kgs and if all else fails I can pick her up (just!).


As I said before, even if I'd known all that was to come with the season I'd still have waited.


It's a really difficult decision in your circumstances and I don't envy you one little bit.


Good luck!

GwylimT

neveranymoney wrote: »

At our vets, you see whatever vet is available at the time, and when we discussed it with the vet at shadows second jabs, the vet in question had told me she was dominant (due to the fact at 12 wks she was humping legs!) and that bigger dogs could be left incontinent due to early neutering and she would advise waiting until a first season. So I didn't know what end of me was up after that consult.

I would prefer an earlier neutering for my own sanity if I'm entirely honest but have a niggly feeling that I am being selfish.

Shadow is my husbands pride and joy (never mind me and his human children!) and I have to say, would be old school and would be more swayed than me by everything a doctor/vet/'expert' would tell him so he would prefer to wait but as I pointed out, it wouldn't be him stuck at home 24/7 for three weeks slowly crawling the walls!

I'm sure if need be that could be arranged!

Paradigm

You say "large breed", what exactly?

neveranymoney

I'm already around the twist this week, bar school runs and dog walks, I am stuck in most of the day due to not driving, I was practically waiting in the driveway for my husband to get in this afternoon so I could hit tescos for the bargain hunt, I don't think I could cope with the claustrophobia of it and certainly couldn't lift shadow if the occasion called for it. The fact that an awful lot if dog owners round here are a bit dense wouldn't help matters - off lead and not under control dogs on the main roads (missy gets off lead in the field where I have 360 view and liver in my pocket).

I had thought of booking her in for 7 months of age as this would run into Easter hols and my teenage daughter is a great help with her in the house so there would be at least two of us to keep an eye on her post op and if she came into season before this (which I think would be too young but you never know) the decision would be taken out of my hands so it would be a fair compromise.

joansgirl

Sorry, just something I forgot to say last time. Fatty lumps. I know 2 female labs. One neutered, one not. Female labs are supposedly more prone to fatty lumps if they're spayed. The un-neutered one is riddled with them while the neutered one only has a few.


Also the neutered one was done at 6 months before her first season and has suffered no ill effects. She's 11 now and has been allowed to get quite fat so struggles with arthritis, but apart from that she's fine. The other one's coming up for 13 and struggles to walk because of the fatty lumps. She's also over weight (a common problem with labs coz they're walking dustbins).


There's no hard and fast proof for either train of thought so just go with what feels right for you.

neveranymoney

Sorry, paradigm, she's a black lab!

Paradigm

So she's a black lab approx 5 months old yeh? Is she in season? If not why are you "tripping over dogs" at your front door?