Premier Parking P&O Hull

curry44*

I recently parked up at Hull P&O paid the correct £14 fee, parked correctly in a bay and displayed what I thought was the parking ticket on my dashboard. I returned to my car to find that I had a parking ticket for not displaying both parts of the ticket. I appealed via email showing the receipt which clearly shows the amount and date of payment and showing a bank statement proving the payment made via debit card. They have emailed me today showing a photo of the ticket machine displaying a notice saying that both parts eg receipt and ticket must be displayed, a photo showing my car with only the receipt displayed, therefore the appeal has been refuted and I must pay the £50 within 14 days or £100 thereafter.
I'm so angry and really don't want to pay these jumped up charges but I'm not great with writing official letters etc.
It seems to me that this company are setting people up to fail, why do we need to display two receipts, why is the machine not issuing these two pieces of paper at the same time (why does a receipt come first, surely you get a receipt after your purchase?). Why are they issuing fines when they can clearly see that I have paid???
Seriously though can they get away with charging me £50 or £100 because I didn't show the other half of a piece of paper? I have a feeling that they get away with it because people are scared (I am!) or don't have the knowledge to challenge them. I have read various draft letters but don't really understand the ownership of land part and whether I need to include it? Could anyone point me in the right direction, thanks in advance. I really appreciate any help or advice........

Redx

well , to start with , this thread you posted in incorrectly has the best advice about this from 2 of the main people who have had similar experiences

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4854037

therefore I would say do as they do, or did, or will do

so no you should not have posted in it, but its your best source of info, as is the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of this forum too

ps:- they are setting this up to entrap people, thats all part of maximising profit

and no they are not issuing fines, only a court or a judge can do that

they are issuing parking charge notices because you have not complied with their signage

they could have told you to display a pink plastic banana on the dashboard and you would have still failed as you havent displayed one

they make it up to fool you, also to try to fool those other people in those other threads , which is why some of them are fighting back with counter claims

when its time to wake up, you need to small the coffee, like the rest of us suddenly had to do when faced with similar issues , so yes they are trying to scam you, so make them pay , at popla !!

salmosalaris

Have you received a POPLA code ? This is where to kill this.

However don't rely on the details of the incident and hope that common sense will prevail as this chap did. POPLA found in PPS's favour , PPS took the matter to court but in the end failed to show.
Make sure you draft a winning POPLA appeal with all the killer points .

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=81218

4consumerrights

curry44* wrote: »

I recently parked up at Hull P&O paid the correct £14 fee, parked correctly in a bay and displayed what I thought was the parking ticket on my dashboard. I returned to my car to find that I had a parking ticket for not displaying both parts of the ticket. I appealed via email showing the receipt which clearly shows the amount and date of payment and showing a bank statement proving the payment made via debit card. They have emailed me today showing a photo of the ticket machine displaying a notice saying that both parts eg receipt and ticket must be displayed, a photo showing my car with only the receipt displayed, therefore the appeal has been refuted and I must pay the £50 within 14 days or £100 thereafter.
I'm so angry and really don't want to pay these jumped up charges but I'm not great with writing official letters etc.
It seems to me that this company are setting people up to fail, why do we need to display two receipts, why is the machine not issuing these two pieces of paper at the same time (why does a receipt come first, surely you get a receipt after your purchase?). Why are they issuing fines when they can clearly see that I have paid???
Seriously though can they get away with charging me £50 or £100 because I didn't show the other half of a piece of paper? I have a feeling that they get away with it because people are scared (I am!) or don't have the knowledge to challenge them. I have read various draft letters but don't really understand the ownership of land part and whether I need to include it? Could anyone point me in the right direction, thanks in advance. I really appreciate any help or advice........

Welcome to the world of PPCs who make up terms and conditions in a deliberate and concerted effort to entrap and make as much money as possible.

Do you have a POPLA code or not?

Time to do some reading and researching what makes a good POPLA appeal - start with the NEWBIE thread.

I have read various draft letters but don't really understand the ownership of land part and whether I need to include it?

Well you certainly need to do a lot of reading here then if you don't understand this basic concept....


And please do post up your draft appeal before sending as from the sound of it you will need help.

Can you also confirm exactly who the parking company here is please as there are two similar ones:

Premier Park Ltd
Premier Parking Solutions Ltd.

ZiggyStardust1

I am the victim of PPS of Newton Abbot's scam at Hull P&O ferry carpark mentioned in salmosalaris' link to pepipoo above (Hi Salmo!) and the first thing to say is DO NOT BE SCARED of these clownish Devonian paper tigers sending you speculative invoices for preposterous amounts of money coupled with veiled threats of 'Action', particularly as you, like me, demonstrably did pay the required parking fee to these pirates. I fully understand your sense of outraged injustice, I felt it myself, but it all went away after I was awarded costs against Premier Parking Solutions by a friendly old judge at my local Court last month.

Get angry, & stay angry, as I did, and treat it as a bit of a game, as I did as PPS will not, under any circumstances get an extra penny from you.

I initially attracted the attention of these vaguely-legal robbers last March in the same carpark (I don't hold anything against the parking warden who stuck the invoice on our car, as he was only doing his robotic job & presumably gets a couple of quid bonus from Barrie Douglass (Google him) for every ticket he issues.)

We returned to Hull P&O last September for another Belgian trip for cheap baccy & noticed the new sticky labels stuck to PPS' flakey machines (which they lease, incidentally from another company) demanding that two flimsy non-adhesive pieces of paper instead of just the one last March should now delicately be placed on your dashboard before sampling the delights on board the "Pride of Hull".... (contradiction in terms, I'd have thought as a ship name after my experiences of the way PPS make one feel about Hull, but anyway).

The land on which the whole P&O facility lies is owned by Associated British Ports Ltd & leased to P&O under a contract which does not include a clause to sub-assign the right to levy speculative charges or genuine pre-estimates of loss on their behalf, to a third party parking company, if that's of any help.

There are two ways to follow this through: one is to quickly email PPS refuting their claim in a brief appeal, which they will refuse, and demand a POPLA code with which to appeal to POPLA. Get advice here or pepipoo on a template POPLA appeal & make sure you keep every piece of evidence, ticket, ferry boarding cards, booking confirmation, redacted bank statement, threats from PPS, everything, in a nice big envelope labelled "Pirates Operating from Hull", as I did, and your POPLA appeal will win. Or, failing that, let PPS rack up even more costs by trying to defend this in Court and having their case thrown out, as they will not attend if your local County Court's more than 10 miles away from Exeter AND you walk away with a cheque from them paying your expenses in this matter for time, research, petrol, mileage, postage, printer ink, paper, lunches, new clothes for Court & so on, as I did.

But mainly, don't get scared, get indignant.

The_Deep

I agree with Ziggy, if you are up for it, face them down. Do an appeal to Popla which you know will lose and wait for them to engage their brains. Then, ignore everything until court papers arrive and defend assertively. As ziggy says, they will blink first, and you can claim compo. You do not need nerves of steel, you are not up against Stephen Hawkins.

Big_Bad_Dad

Hi Curry44

In future if you receive a parking charge from a private company in the shape of a windscreen ticket, just discard it. They don't know it was there when you got back to your motor (I for instance could have interfered with it) and the task of locating the target is theirs. You've given them a head to hunt and have saved them from buying registered keeper details from the DVLA, and who is to say they would even have done this?

Not to worry, the operation is now on the road! The demand is unenforceable, it is a scam, and is most certainly not a fine or a penalty and the rates (discount and full) count for about as much as an apology from your MP.

You are in the right. Balls to their terms and conditions, you paid. End of. If they don't like it, you should be issued a POPLA authorisation code, and your story coupled with an explanation how there is no loss to the landowner will be enough to flush this matter off to sewage farm where it belongs.

ZiggyStardust1

Big_Bad_Dad wrote: »

Hi Curry44

In future if you receive a parking charge from a private company in the shape of a windscreen ticket, just discard it. They don't know it was there when you got back to your motor (I for instance could have interfered with it) and the task of locating the target is theirs. You've given them a head to hunt and have saved them from buying registered keeper details from the DVLA, and who is to say they would even have done this?

Not to worry, the operation is now on the road! The demand is unenforceable, it is a scam, and is most certainly not a fine or a penalty and the rates (discount and full) count for about as much as an apology from your MP.

You are in the right. Balls to their terms and conditions, you paid. End of. If they don't like it, you should be issued a POPLA authorisation code, and your story coupled with an explanation how there is no loss to the landowner will be enough to flush this matter off to sewage farm where it belongs.

Weeelll, I wouldn't go as far as to say ignore a PCN in the expectation that it'll go away, because it won't & you'll get ever more threatening letters and/or emails, as this is the business model currently followed by the pirates since they've been prevented from clamping on private land. Moreover, the parking employee who plonked the charge on you will also have time/date stamped photos of your car with the ticket on it plus registration plate. They have digital cameras nowadays & have been trained for many minutes in how to use them the right way round.

PPS also have the OP's email address, if not also real address details through which to threaten him further, which is slightly unpleasant as it personalises the experience, but I agree that in this case Barrie D. doesn't have a leg to stand on (again).

Google Streetview PPS' scruffy two-man-band lockup/PO Box premises on the outskirts of Newton Abbot (wherever that is) via their postcode to get a perspective on what a bunch of low-rent belligerent amateurs you're dealing with, to put it in perspective. I'm amazed a reputable customer-focussed company like P&O still use this bunch of cowboys to patrol their leased-from-ABP carparks in Hull in view of the negative publicity it gives them. (Copy thread to P&O Hull Customer Services for info).

The smallish carparks in question, btw, are in the most lonely God-forsaken outskirts of Hull docks, always half-empty & miles from anywhere, albeit within striking distance of Hull Jail, it must be said, about 2 miles away, with absolutely nothing at all, no shops, no pubs, nothing which would coax anyone to park there illicitly, the 14 quid for 48 hours charge is fairly reasonable given that everywhere on earth is a long way away from the P&O terminal, so this is a scam which probably over 50% of those caught up in it will pay to avoid the hassle, which is a shame.

(I know you monitor the forums, Bazza, & btw, thanks again for the cheque).

Coupon-mad

I would not advise discarding any PPC letters, just in case you need them, and I would not advise deliberately throwing a POPLA appeal - they are easy to win.

Big_Bad_Dad

ZiggyStardust1 wrote: »

I wouldn't go as far as to say ignore a PCN in the expectation that it'll go away, because it won't.

I never said it will go away. I stated that there may be a chance the company does not pursue. Indeed I know of cases where this is the norm, even in the advent of POFA/POPLA.

ZiggyStardust1 wrote: »

Moreover, the parking employee who plonked the charge on you will also have time/date stamped photos of your car with the ticket on it plus registration plate. They have digital cameras nowadays & have been trained for many minutes in how to use them the right way round.

This digital smigital gadgetry does not constitute evidence of a motorist having seen the charge when returning to his vehicle, it merely serves to satisfy the parking company that it possesses evidence of a breach. There is nothing to be gained by volunteering all sensitive details to a parking company, the task of chasing is theirs, the ball is in their court - it's their problem. So they have to purchase a keeper's details? Tough, they chose that path.

The game of "Beat the scam-monger" only begins when they buy your details and issue a Notice to Keeper. By that time, the matter at hand will be the alleged breach as recorded on the ticket which you maintain you did not receive. So, if their document recorded you as overstaying by 25 minutes whereas you actually left your car in the spot until the following morning, then "overstaying by 25 minutes" is the source of the complaint and that is all the victim is required to defeat.

I never said ignore postal invoices, only windscreen tickets. My advice still stands, but I am all ears if anyone should provide an explanation as to how it can be beneficial to assist the parking company in their harassment campaign and save them the DVLA fee.

ZiggyStardust1

Big_Bad_Dad wrote: »

I never said it will go away. I stated that there may be a chance the company does not pursue. Indeed I know of cases where this is the norm, even in the advent of POFA/POPLA.



This digital smigital gadgetry does not constitute evidence of a motorist having seen the charge when returning to his vehicle, it merely serves to satisfy the parking company that it possesses evidence of a breach. There is nothing to be gained by volunteering all sensitive details to a parking company, the task of chasing is theirs, the ball is in their court - it's their problem. So they have to purchase a keeper's details? Tough, they chose that path.

The game of "Beat the scam-monger" only begins when they buy your details and issue a Notice to Keeper. By that time, the matter at hand will be the alleged breach as recorded on the ticket which you maintain you did not receive. So, if their document recorded you as overstaying by 25 minutes whereas you actually left your car in the spot until the following morning, then "overstaying by 25 minutes" is the source of the complaint and that is all the victim is required to defeat.

I never said ignore postal invoices, only windscreen tickets. My advice still stands, but I am all ears if anyone should provide an explanation as to how it can be beneficial to assist the parking company in their harassment campaign and save them the DVLA fee.

Fair enough. You're clearly the expert. :rotfl:

However, in mitigation of my above post, the fact is that PPS of Newton Abbot (wherever that is, somewhere in the SouthWest I think), merely send an NTK to the initial appellant (me) rather than forking out money to the DVLA actually to check, regardless of whether the appellant is the RK or has admitted to be the driver (not me in either case) & hope for the best, as they're a very very small company based in the middle of nowhere.

I was trying to be company & case specific.