Mortgage in 2003

[Deleted User]

Confused_by_the_rules wrote: »

not by most people on this site

Since most mortgage PPI complaints are not upheld (even those post regulation) clearly your assertion is untrue.
If you attempt to refer your case to the Ombudsman, they will reply that they have no jurisdiction on broker complaints prior to January 2005.

Your complaint is over. Sorry.

Confused_by_the_rules wrote: »

They said that section 3.2 of this mortage code covered all insurances, that must back me up

No. It's totally irrelevant to a complaint about PPI from the date in question.

roonaldo

Confused_by_the_rules wrote: »

They said that section 3.2 of this mortage code covered all insurances, that must back me up

which took affect from 31 October 2004 anyway (MCOB) so irrelevant. Insurance conduct of business (ICOB) came in 14 January 2005 so again doesnt apply.

Insider101

Confused_by_the_rules wrote: »

It was a broker, a friend of mine says FOS can look at claims under this mortgage code but it must be in breach of it for them to sort if that makes any sense

This is about right and yes it does make sense. But TMC only applied to the sale of mortgages themselves. I don't recall it imposing any specific requirements for sales of insurance alongside mortgages. Has the broker given you FOS rights or just stated that they don't consider FOS rights to apply?

Confused_by_the_rules

Insider101 wrote: »

This is about right and yes it does make sense. But TMC only applied to the sale of mortgages themselves. I don't recall it imposing any specific requirements for sales of insurance alongside mortgages. Has the broker given you FOS rights or just stated that they don't consider FOS rights to apply?

they said it is covered in this section 3.2 of this mortgage code guideance notes which I can not locate

Insider101

roonaldo wrote: »

which took affect from 31 October 2004 anyway (MCOB) so irrelevant. Insurance conduct of business (ICOB) came in 14 January 2005 so again doesnt apply.

The mortgage code is a different thing to MCOB. It was a voluntary code of conduct prior to statutory regulation and was policed by the Mortgage Code Compliance Board. The FOS can consider a complaint against a broker which subscribed to it if the complaint relates to a breach of it. But as the code covered actual mortgage sales and not insurance products then I can't see that it would have any bearing here.

roonaldo

Insider101 wrote: »

The mortgage code is a different thing to MCOB. It was a voluntary code of conduct prior to statutory regulation and was policed by the Mortgage Code Compliance Board. The FOS can consider a complaint against a broker which subscribed to it if the complaint relates to a breach of it. But as the code covered actual mortgage sales and not insurance products then I can't see that it would have any bearing here.

oh yes long forgot about that,I used to work for Kensington too! in that case, here it is http://www.cml.org.uk/cml/policy/issues/111

I doubt many brokers at least ones that sold Kensington mortgages ever subscribed to the code.

Insider101

Confused_by_the_rules wrote: »

they said it is covered in this section 3.2 of this mortgage code guideance notes which I can not locate

I can't post links but google "mortgage code of conduct". The first link you get should be to the council of mortgage lenders website. Click on it and scroll to the bottom, you should find the code.

All section 3.2 really says is that firms will provide a full description of any insurance services they provide, including whether it is a condition of the offer that any insurance be taken out, whose responsibility it is to ensure this and whether it must be taken through them. There's nothing specific to the selling practices surrounding insurance products as they are not within the scope of the code.

Insider101

roonaldo wrote: »

oh yes long forgot about that,I used to work for Kensington too! in that case, here it is http://www.cml.org.uk/cml/policy/issues/111

I doubt many brokers at least ones that sold Kensington mortgages ever subscribed to the code.

I rather doubt it as well, if memory serves they catered for the sub-prime market which has always had its fair share of shysters.

Confused_by_the_rules

Insider101 wrote: »

I can't post links but google "mortgage code of conduct". The first link you get should be to the council of mortgage lenders website. Click on it and scroll to the bottom, you should find the code.

All section 3.2 really says is that firms will provide a full description of any insurance services they provide, including whether it is a condition of the offer that any insurance be taken out, whose responsibility it is to ensure this and whether it must be taken through them. There's nothing specific to the selling practices surrounding insurance products as they are not within the scope of the code.

Just spoke to FOS. This is very interesting, they will take on the compliant for PPI under the terms of the mortgage code and find against the firm if 1) They said insurance was compulsary and not optional and 2) They did not disclose how much the cost of the PPI was. I know this does not help me but it proves claims before this 2005 deadline everyone else goes on about can be made if either or both of the above was not disclosed. So if they told you you had to have it you have a case or if they did not tell you how much it would cost you can also send it to these FOS people :T

[Deleted User]

Confused_by_the_rules wrote: »

Just spoke to FOS. This is very interesting, they will take on the compliant for PPI under the terms of the mortgage code and find against the firm if 1) They said insurance was compulsary and not optional and 2) They did not disclose how much the cost of the PPI was.

No one manning the FOS telephones can say categorically they'll find against a financial institution. They encourage EVERYONE to make a complaint and leave it to other more knowledgable staff to sort it out.

Confused_by_the_rules wrote: »

I know this does not help me but it proves claims before this 2005 deadline everyone else goes on about can be made if either or both of the above was not disclosed.

How can anyone prove that the Broker told them it was compulsory? They'd need recordings of the sales conversations!
I'm also pretty certain there'd be paperwork detailing the costs of the insurance on even the most basic mortgage documentation.

It's a very narrow criteria allowing FOS to look at it and I still suspect any complainant would probably wait a few months and then be rejected anyhow because of a lack of evidence.