Unreasonable Charges - Nursery Fees

Tyrranus_X

Hi,

My daughter attends a university nursery, as my partner is currently studying at the University.

We have never signed a contract, though the nursery has a policy in place, where even if my daughter does not attend, they will still charge for booked days.

Official term time started on Jan 6, but my partner does not return to University until the 20th, however the nursery insist on us paying for 12 days in January instead of 6.

We used to only have 8 days per 4 week period, but due to an operation, my daughters Grandfather who used to look after her on Mondays can no longer do it, and when I asked if we could start Mondays in February instead, they said any changes need to be made a month in advance.

What's worse is they also expect us to pay for an additional 2 months in the Summer time when my partner does not need to attend university - I will tell the Nursery at that stage that we only require half a day a week a month in advance, and by the same logic as adding days I would hope they cannot say no.

I do not receive any monies for my daughters childcare and this costs in the £1000's, if she is ill or we have a holiday, I completely understand if we get charged, but when my partner's course does not start and they are unwilling to remove the recently added days, I wonder under the implied contract we have in place if there is any legal action I can take to reclaim unfair charges.

Because I do not want my daughter to leave the nursery (at least until we find another convenient one) so that my partner can still attend university, I am marking the payment for January as 'Payment Under Protest'.

Please help if you can with any legal advice and what I may need to do and also if this would count as an unfair charge.

dunstonh

the nursery has a policy in place, where even if my daughter does not attend, they will still charge for booked days.

Which seems fair enough given that they have to staff it to cater for the numbers booked. Especially if they have to turn away others if numbers get to a certain level. Plus, they will also suffer fixed costs

they said any changes need to be made a month in advance.

Not necessarily unreasonable given the staffing needs to be planned.

I wonder under the implied contract we have in place if there is any legal action I can take to reclaim unfair charges.

You have an opinion that they are unfair. However, only a court could decide if they actually are. You could suffer costs for this and its quite possible the nursery may refuse to accept your daughter in future. Firms are entitled to refuse to accept business from people as long as it is not on the grounds of discrimination (such as disability or race).

You need to speak with a solicitor if you want to consider this further. The lack of contract doesnt help them or you. Going down the legal route without formalising your complaint with them first is something you should not do. Judges do not like receiving cases where no attempt to resolve the conflict has taken place. Indeed, some may even refuse to hear the case until it is hopelessly deadlocked. You have to show that you have raised your concerns and given them a chance to give respond to them.

Perhaps the first thing to ask them is where in the contract does it say you have to pay these charges? If they have a pamphlet of charges then that would become part of your contract even if there isnt an actual written contract. Also, a company is largely allowed to make charges for services that it wants. The court is not there to dictate costs. It would rule on whether a contract term is unfair or not.

It is not uncommon for nursery/pre-school to charge by the term. Some don't allow picking and choosing of dates. You are effectively buying block periods for provision of service with them and that sounds similar to what is happening with you.

Mallotum_X

Sounds perfectly reasonable. You book a day you pay for it, why would you think it acceptable to book days and then cancel without paying?

They have costs to plan for and may have turned other children away for your space.

You may be better off planning your life and child care a little better?

WestonDave

I suspect the OP having read what they didn't want to hear won't be back but this is normal practice for most nurseries. They have to pay their staff 52 weeks per year, based on a certain number of child places, and if you want one of those places you have to pay for every week during the period it is reserved for you - its not their fault the kid is ill, on holiday or you happen to be able to look after them due to you being on holiday.

On the basis that its normal practice its unlikely to be deemed an unfair charging method. Some places dress it up slightly better by saying they charge £50 per week for 50 weeks instead of £48 per week for all 52 weeks but in reality the overall cost of a years child care is pretty close.

Tyrranus_X

On the contrary, I have come back relatively soon to thank you all for your comments, given the common practice, I now feel somewhat that the charges could be justified.

What I object to is the condescending comments such as being told to manage things better!

Firstly I don't book days, they are all assumed, the addition of a day a week as mentioned was due to surgery of a relative.

Secondly, these forums are to seek advice given that I personally pay £10k a year in childcare, I think it's fair to challenge paying for food etc on days where there is no reasonable justification to book.

And lastly I have has several conversations with the nursery who are rude and dismissive and have no appreciation that I pay their wages, total lack of customer service!

So in summary, thank you for bringing the points to my attention, but please do not insult me in response to a fair query.

I have a law degree and am a non-practicing solicitor for the record.

WestonDave

Fair enough (apologies for the assumption!). However the marginal cost of not providing one meal out of however many isn't much so the cost reduction probably wouldn't be worth the admin cost of working out.

The basic system is that childcare works on a £X per day reserved, pay it every week unless the nursery is closed (and even then its quasi factored into the price as the staff will be on paid leave, the rent still needs paying, insurance covers etc).

It is something which is to some extent counter intuitive as a consumer (paying but not using) but when you look at it from the other end, its clearly not workable to have a place reserved every week for little Jonny but only to charge for it when he turns up, and still be able to pay the staff and overheads.

Tyrranus_X

The thing that annoys me most is that we originally had an invoice (sent after Dec 6) for 8 days and asked for a new invoice to include Mondays (and that we would only need 6 days).

They then sent an invoice for 12 days and say they need a months notice and have to charge us for the Mondays in January now, but having made the change to add Mondays with under a months notice, this seems largely unfair.

roonaldo

you need to find a different nursery if you are unhappy with the fees or billing. you are the ones who have made the decisions to not take the child in until x date and not on certain days. how is this the fault of the nursery? isnt this a like it or lump it situation, not legal?

Tyrranus_X

Yeah thanks for that, not really very helpful.
If you read the original post, I stated they are charging us from 6th, but my partners course does not start again until the 20th, hardly an active decision, I think they would rather spend the time with my daughter. Also I mentioned in my second post that I concede the reasons mentioned by others but do not appreciate derogatory comments. Please read the entire posts before adding banal comments

[Deleted User]

Tyrranus_X wrote: »

I have a law degree and am a non-practicing solicitor for the record.

So the question has to be asked why you are looking for legal advice on the internet?

roonaldo

Tyrranus_X wrote: »

If you read the original post, I stated they are charging us from 6th, but my partners course does not start again until the 20th

you are missing all the points people have made to you as its not what you want to hear, pay particular attention to post 2 by dunstonh. your circumstances are nothing to do with the nursery. your problem is easlily solved by searching for a new nursery with policies that better fit your needs.