Excel PCN - Give them Driver Details?

mbugle

Hi everyone,

Apologies if this is answered elsewhere, but I've checked the Newbies thread and other posts and have been unable to find a clear answer.

I've received a PCN from Excel in the post and it says in order to appeal I have to provide the drivers name and address. I see a lot of people are saying to just reply as the registered vehicle owner, but that seems to apply when they are talking about "fake PCNs".

Someone in a post showed an automatic reply from Excel saying that if you haven't provided all details necessary that they will be unable to process the appeal.

Should I just give them the driver details (me) to avoid any complications, or am I weakening my position?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Redx

you are weakening your position (if in england or wales)

you reply as RK and do not imply who was driving at this stage, they are trying to con you and scam you

here is a typical soft appeal, adapt it as you wish but try to keep what is there intact

Dear Excel,

As the registered keeper of (reg) I'm in receipt of your parking invoice xxxxxx dated xxxxxx. I wish to invoke your appeals process as all liability to your company is denied on the following:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the capacity to offer contracts or to bring a claim for trespass

These points and others will be raised with Popla should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Please issue your cancellation within 35 days of this letter, or forward a popla verification code.

Faithfully

if necessary, post it with free proof of posting at the P.O.

mbugle

Hi Redx, thanks for getting back to me.

Ok, I'll go ahead without giving the driver details then...it was just a bit intimidating to see that they send you an auto response saying that they can't process it without all of the information (including driver details) that they asked for.

The_Slithy_Tove

They are telling lies. The BPA Code of Practice states that a challenge or appeal can come from the keeper. This should be reported to the BPA. As it's an auto-response, Excel are breaching the Code of Practice EVERY TIME someone sends in an email appeal. They should be severely sanctioned for this, especially as they have been told to stop already.

This is the kind of scammer you are dealing with.

Coupon-mad

"fake PCNs" includes all private tickets. It is an acronym explained in the 'Newbies read this first' sticky thread, along with links on how to appeal and how to win at POPLA. You will need to read it.

And if you search the forum for 'Excel auto-response' you would see you do NOT reply to it. This is merely an 'auto-response', no action required!!

mbugle

Hi again everyone,

So, I've just received the letter back from Excel and they have decided to reject my appeal, which after reading the newbies thread and other posts, I was sort of anticipating.

So I am going to take this to POPLA now. One of the reasons I thought they might accept my appeal straight away was that they have not (in my opinion) adhered to the POFA act, with regards specifically to the accpetable (14 working days) period for the notice to be served.

I'd much appreciate any help or advice on this, so I will run through what I had said to them to describe the situation so far;

1.'The alleged breach of the car park terms and conditions was Thursday 23/12/2013 and the issue date of the parking charge notice is Friday 03/01/2014. Given that the notice was delivered on Tuesday 07/01/2014 which is the second working day after the issue date, and the 15th day after the alleged contravention date; as deemed appropriate under Paragraph 9 (6) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012, your rights under POFA no longer apply as you have not complied with the 14 day period.'

The section of the POFA I'm referring to states that the notice must be served by the 14th working day after the alleged contravention date and that it will be deemed to have been served on the second working day after the day which it was posted.... The second working day after which it was posted was the day on which I received it, which was the 15th day after the contravention date, and so, outside of the 14 day period which the POFA specifies.

They replied to me on this point saying that it was "issued" within the 14 days and so they cannot be held responsible for the delivery time taken by Royal Mail - but that isn't what POFA says -Am I correct?

2.I also stated that the charge was not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and also pointed out that the code clearly states that the cost of running their business is not accepted in the calculation of this. They replied by ignoring this and saying that the calculation is based on the cost of managing the parking location and following up on breaches of the terms and conditions - That's the cost of running their business isn't it??

3.I also said that the signage does not comply with the BPA code of practice. There is a sign on entry to the car park, but you would literally have to pull over, get out and go back to the sign to be able to read the information due to the font size - something which someone wouldn't do if they were just going to wait to collect someone from the location, i.e. not park up and use the facilities. They replied saying they disagree essentially, and that there is a photograph enclosed of the T's and C's displayed in the car park. There was no photograph enclosed, however I do have my own photograph which illustrates the tiny font on the signage.

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks again in advance

mbugle

mbugle wrote: »

Hi again everyone,

So, I've just received the letter back from Excel and they have decided to reject my appeal, which after reading the newbies thread and other posts, I was sort of anticipating.

So I am going to take this to POPLA now. One of the reasons I thought they might accept my appeal straight away was that they have not (in my opinion) adhered to the POFA act, with regards specifically to the accpetable (14 working days) period for the notice to be served.

I'd much appreciate any help or advice on this, so I will run through what I had said to them to describe the situation so far;

1.'The alleged breach of the car park terms and conditions was Thursday 23/12/2013 and the issue date of the parking charge notice is Friday 03/01/2014. Given that the notice was delivered on Tuesday 07/01/2014 which is the second working day after the issue date, and the 15th day after the alleged contravention date; as deemed appropriate under Paragraph 9 (6) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012, your rights under POFA no longer apply as you have not complied with the 14 day period.'

The section of the POFA I'm referring to states that the notice must be served by the 14th working day after the alleged contravention date and that it will be deemed to have been served on the second working day after the day which it was posted.... The second working day after which it was posted was the day on which I received it, which was the 15th day after the contravention date, and so, outside of the 14 day period which the POFA specifies.

They replied to me on this point saying that it was "issued" within the 14 days and so they cannot be held responsible for the delivery time taken by Royal Mail - but that isn't what POFA says -Am I correct?

2.I also stated that the charge was not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and also pointed out that the code clearly states that the cost of running their business is not accepted in the calculation of this. They replied by ignoring this and saying that the calculation is based on the cost of managing the parking location and following up on breaches of the terms and conditions - That's the cost of running their business isn't it??

3.I also said that the signage does not comply with the BPA code of practice. There is a sign on entry to the car park, but you would literally have to pull over, get out and go back to the sign to be able to read the information due to the font size - something which someone wouldn't do if they were just going to wait to collect someone from the location, i.e. not park up and use the facilities. They replied saying they disagree essentially, and that there is a photograph enclosed of the T's and C's displayed in the car park. There was no photograph enclosed, however I do have my own photograph which illustrates the tiny font on the signage.

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks again in advance

Sorry, just to clarify point 1 as it's a little confusing- they issued the notice on the 13th working day and I received it on the 15th working day. The POFA states that it is deemed to be received on the 2nd working day after the issue date, which is what happened. To me, this means it has not been served inside of the 14 day period.

Redx

1) you are correct in that the POFA 2012 says it has to be with you within 14 days, but bear in mind that the contravention date is day zero, making the day after day 1, so I think they got it to you on the last possible day - day 15 (I may be wrong but dont think so) - the royal mail issues or bank holidays etc are deemed irrelevant - despite what I think or others may think, the 14 days is statute

2) correct, but then they dont tend to tell the truth here anyway, they make it up to suit themselves

3) of course you will both dispute the signage , you say its bad , they say it isnt , so thats another argument

either way they refused your appeal so if they issued a popla code then get on with it (after checking the date using the NEWBIES thread) and get it into popla within 28 days or you will fail a deadline date as well

mbugle

Hi Redx,

Thanks again for your swift reply.

Yes, I counted the contravention date as day zero, so it did reach me on the 15th working day.

Ok great thanks - Do you think I will be successful if I just present the arguments put forward here (but better worded and referenced) for my POPLA appeal?

Thanks,

Redx

I havent seen a properly worded popla appeal fail yet m8 !!

obviously I dont know the details in your case but Excel always lose at popla on not a gpeol or no contract or bad signage

Folkiedave

They have been told about this time and time again.

Get a complaint in to Elizabeth Symons at the DVLA and Steve Clark at the BPA. I think both emails are in the Newbies thread. They'll probably do nothing about it. But try it.