Evans / Santander / Genworth offer - miscalculated?

*Tony*_2

I need someone who is good at calculations to give me an idea if this calculation is anywhere near correct (I think it isnt) and advise on my next step please. I have in my mind that they have miscalculated the redress offer, and are trying to get me to agree to a figure by now reducing the offer and saying I can still accept their previous slightly higher offer.

Quick summary first, Evans card started in store 18th September 1992, copy of signed agreement obtained under SAR shows I filled in section 1-5 (name /address/ ticked as unemployed / bank details etc) and Evans shop employee filled in sections 6-10 which included section 9 where you tick if you do not want PPI. I closed the account in Jan 2008 having paid it off in full Sept 2007 during a remortgage / pay off loans and cards restructuring not knowing anything about PPI or what it was at the time.

Early 2012 when doing some random checks for past PPI I found out from Santander Cards who bought out the Evans cards that I have paid a total of £2684.00 in insurance premiums. I wrote back and pointed out that I hadnt signed up for PPI, it was in a document that I was required to tick not to have it, and as I had stated on the form I was unemployed on taking out the card account, it would have had no benefits anyway. A little bit of waiting and then Santander dropped the pre 2005 response on me, basically they said I should have known as it was on the form, and I had had it mentioned on all my statements that insurance was being paid and there is no evidence of mis-selling and as they werent regulated by FSA before 2005 they were going to reject my claim. A little back and forth and started to go via the FO to make a claim that way and suddenly in Jan 2013 Genworth Insurance who were the people providing the insurance popped up and said they would look into it. Eventually in May 2013 they made an offer which is copied below:

Offer for redres of £4,523.93 which comprises the premium paid on your policy plus 8% simple interest per annum from the start of your policy to todays date (20th May 2013).
Policy start date 25 Sept 1992
Policy End Date 17 May 2013
Premiums paid £2684.00
Simple Interest net £1839.93
Total Redress due £4523.93

At this point I looked at the MSE thread showing how to calculate the interest on policies which had started and ended some time ago, and because I could see their policy end date was over 5 years out I reckoned the interest earned was completely wrong.

I wrote back rejecting that offer and asking them to use the correct Policy end date which could be considered either as 25th September 2007 when I made my last payment, or Jan 08 when the account was fully closed (they charged me £35.00 CPP Premium in Dec 07 and then 53pence insurance on it, then I phone in January 2008 and told them the account should have been closed so they closed it there and then and cancelled that last £35.00 charge and the 53p ppi). I also included what I believed the calculation should have been basing the end date of 2nd Jan 2008 which was as follows:
Premium £2684.00
Simple interest on that £2785.00
Interest from Jan 2008 to May 2013 £1145.00
Total redress £6,614.00

There was a long wait, I phoned in September 2013 asking for an update only to find out they were now waiting for Santander to provide the accurate Start and End Date of the policy. I provided them (again) with copies of the Santander docs I had from the SAR, letter stating the sum, start date and end date along with copies of the actual signed application and then waited. Phoned again in December to hear they had sent a letter and it was in the post.

Their letter now says this (summarised):

Santander now say total premiums paid was £2330.58
Start Date 18 Sept 1992
End Date 2nd January 2008

Based on that their new offer is £4433.59, however as a gesture of goodwill they will still honour the previous offer of £4523.93 if I wish to accept it.

So my first question is, was my quick calculation back in May 2013 more accurate than theirs and was I on the right track with redress of approx £6,600 then rather than the approx £4500 offer.

Second question, now they are claiming its a lower figure (I still have the original Santander letter stating the higher figure) should I be pressing them to stick with that higher figure and accurately calculate the redress based on that figure and up to todays date.

I am aware that as they drag this out month after month I will be entitled to more interest but they seem to have frozen their offer back in time of May 2013 and then dropped the figure and are not prepared to give me any data on how they made thier calculations this time.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long read, tried to get all the info into one post

meer53

No-one here will be able to confirm a redress offer or even work it out. The offer is up to the company making the payment, they're the only people who have access to your records and no-one will know what their criteria is for calculations.

*Tony*_2

meer53 wrote: »

No-one here will be able to confirm a redress offer or even work it out. The offer is up to the company making the payment, they're the only people who have access to your records and no-one will know what their criteria is for calculations.

That's an interesting reply, I used this thread as my basis for calculating what I believed it should be

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2697331

and this thread seems to be saying this is how the FOS would calculate it

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1596473

I was just wanting to know if I had completely misread them or my maths was wrong and I had miscalculated or if I was originally on the right track with my own figure. The second point was asking when they come back with different information which says its now a lower figure where do I stand on asking them to prove any lower figure as Santander have given me a higher premiums paid figure.

[Deleted User]

*Tony* wrote: »

where do I stand on asking them to prove any lower figure as Santander have given me a higher premiums paid figure.

Unless you have your own documentary proof that you paid more than they are offering as a refund (not interest) there is little point in contesting their calculations.

As above, no one on the internet can comment on the accuracy of the figures since we don't have access to your records.

However, you can request a full breakdown of the redress if you want.

*Tony*_2

A 2 year old thread and its been a long battle. Finally 2 years after getting the first incorrect figure offered of £4523 (I had calculated it should be at least £6,614 back in May 2014) - the Ombudsman has forced Genworth to calculate the figures properly (they had been doing them very wrong) and the new settlement figure today is £8981 after tax has been paid. Taking into account the interest accrued because of the additional 2 years its taken to work this out and get an offer, its still higher than my original calculations.
I guess the moral of the story is if you make a claim, then also calculate what you should be expecting back because the Insurance companies may not make the right calculations.

Mersey_2

Well done, Tony!

sun73

Excellent news. You stuck to your guns and have been proved right all along. Its makes you wonder if Genworth have under calculated other offers of redress to consumers.


I thought all businesses used FCA and FOS guidelines in their calculations, or is it based on whatever they can get away with?

samanthag

Well done on your redress!!! I tried to claim from Genworth but they said they were not responsible this was 2 yeas ago is it worth me maybe asking them to look at my claim again ?
Thanks

sun73

Did you refer your complaint to FOS after Genworth rejected it?