Ignored PE- Now LBCCC!

burtreynolds

Okay, another newbie here...!

A friend parked in a PE controlled car park in Chesterfield, one side of the car park is for TK Maxx/Home Bargains the other is for The Range.

My friend spend 2hrs 22mins in all three shops having parked outside The Range. What they didn't realise is that the TK Maxx/HB side is 3hr free stay but The Range side is only 2hr free stay and so received the usual letters from PE for overstaying.

Having followed the old advice of ignoring we are now at the LBCCC stage and wondering what the best course of action is?

We are thinking:
1: Contact the store managers at all three shops detailing our displeasure with being hounded for parking charges having spent the time shopping in their stores, especially given the unusual and confusing parking time arrangement asking them to have the charge cancelled.

2: Responding to the LBCCC as per: Parking - Letter Before County Court Claim (LBCCC) - Fight back! Guidance Thread - Post #3

Does this sound like the correct way to proceed? At what point should/would we want to detail the confusion surrounding the time differences? I haven't been and seen the signs personally yet but whatever the layout they have clearly caused confusion (they 'think' but cant be certain that the first sign you see is the 3hr one).

Any advice on what to do first is appreciated!

burtreynolds

This is the letter to the store manager if anyone has any comment/suggestions?

To the Store Manager,

On the XXX I decided to get a head start on my Christmas shopping and so headed to the retail park on Lordsmill Street, Chesterfield which houses The Range, TK Maxx and Home Bargains.

With three large, well-stocked stores to wander around and a lot of presents/decorations to buy it is no surprise I spent 2 hours 22 minutes shopping.

What did surprise me however is to then receive a series of threatening, pseudo-official looking letters which claimed I had overstayed my welcome in the car park and was now liable to pay a substantial sum of money to ‘Parking Eye’. It was all the more surprising as the sign I saw in the car park indicated that there was a 3 hour free stay period. This matter has now escalated to a ‘Letter Before County Court Action’ and I wish to see an end to this whole sorry situation.

Due to the location and positioning of the signs it was impossible to read all of the information upon entering the car park and it has since transpired that half of the car park has a 2 hour stay and the other half a 3 hour stay. This is extremely confusing and even appears designed to catch people out.

My research indicates that as the ‘landowners’ it is on your behalf that ‘Parking Eye’ is acting and so I appeal to you to contact ‘Parking Eye’ and put a stop to these proceedings and have the charge cancelled, something which is in your power to do.

I cannot put into words the anger and disappointment I would feel if I were to be charged simply for shopping and spending money in your store, something I would expect you to be thankful for in such a stifled economic climate, especially given the ambiguous and confusing nature of the dual time limit in the car park.

I would appreciate a swift reply to this letter as I have only 14 days before this matter escalates further.


Yours Thankfully,
XXX

Umkomaas

OP - as PE monitor via ANPR cameras, unless there are two discrete entrances and exits to the separate car parks, there can't be a way of them differentiating which part of the car park you used.

So I think I'd want to check very carefully whether there is in fact a 2/3 hour variable and so signed posted, and if there is, I'd be trying to work out how PE do differentiate.

I would do that before writing to the retailers, because if you assert there is a 2/3 hour variable and there isn't one, I suspect your letters will lack credibility, will hit the bin and will not achieve the outcome you are seeking.

burtreynolds

I'll drive over and have a look/take some photos just to be sure.

From what I know of the site, there is one entrance from the main dual carriageway, this access road splits the two car parks and turns into a dead end. Turn right into The Range or turn left into TK Maxx/Home Bargains. I am guessing that there is a camera at each of these two smaller access points.

Hope this diagram makes sense...?

[TK MAXX/HB]........I.....I...... [RANGE]
.............................I.....I
.........(3 hr)........< in.....in >....... (2 hr)
.............................I.....I
......................out >.....< out
.............................I.....I
.............................I.... I
..........>>> Dual Carriageway >>>>

I have asked the driver to let me have the photo supplied by the ANPR camera so I can see where it covers.

Thanks for the reply!

Umkomaas

burtreynolds wrote: »

I'll drive over and have a look/take some photos just to be sure.

From what I know of the site, there is one entrance from the main dual carriageway, this access road splits the two car parks and turns into a dead end. Turn right into The Range or turn left into TK Maxx/Home Bargains. I am guessing that there is a camera at each of these two smaller access points.

Hope this diagram makes sense...?

[TK MAXX/HB]........I.....I...... [RANGE]
.............................I.....I
.........(3 hr)........< in.....in >....... (2 hr)
.............................I.....I
......................out >.....< out
.............................I.....I
.............................I.... I
..........>>> Dual Carriageway >>>>

I have asked the driver to let me have the photo supplied by the ANPR camera so I can see where it covers.

Thanks for the reply!

Thanks for this, great diagrammatic using a keyboard, helped get this clearer in my mind. I can see how they could mount two separate in/out camera sets to monitor the individual car parks.

Do PE cover both car parks?

I'm not sure you're going to see much from your friend's ANPR camera shot of their car. It's just a high level view of the car and the bit of Tarmac it's on, with a further superimposed close up of the registration plate. I doubt you could make out anything further, but no harm in seeing if you can.

burtreynolds

I can't post links yet but if you google The Range, Chesterfield the google maps aerial footage shows the car park pretty well (except it's before the stores opened and PE moved in... It's South East of the roundabout and the main entrance is just before the footbridge.

I haven't seen the pic of her car yet so I am just curious as to what they have sent.

PE covers both car parks AFAIK but I will give concrete answers once I have been down there for some surveillance... : )

Cheers!

Coupon-mad

You have the right idea with your planned approach. Did you see in the 'LBCCC Fightback' sticky thread that I recently linked a letter which just got a case back to POPLA stage after a LBCCC was challenged? You can use a version of that or copy it almost verbatim if you like, the idea was to give PE nowhere to go with any court plans.

''it is no surprise I spent 2 hours 22 minutes shopping.''

Don't forget you didn't SHOP for that long, The 2hrs 22 minutes includes any queuing time, parking up, reading the signs (for which the BPA CoP requires a grace period where enforcement does not occur)...then at the end, loading shopping, strapping kids in car seat, queuing to leave. Sounds like you actually shopped for 2 hours (just being pedantic but it is true).

...and don't write implying who the driver was! No point unless someone has already said who was driving in any earlier contact.

burtreynolds

I may have done? I have read so many threads it's hard to keep track!

The "spent 2 hours 22 minutes shopping"line is just to the retailers to show that the entire time was spent there which is exactly what they want. I realise that to PE we would break down the time as you described but I am not sure that it really matters to the store manager?

I believe the ANPR photo shows the driver but I havn't seen that yet.

Looks like I will get the response to the LBCCC off tomorrow to make sure we don't miss the deadline on that and buy some time while they shred it and send their stock response.

The letters to the store managers will be hand delivered on Saturday after I have double checked the signage just to be clear what I have written makes sense.

If the retailers cancel it that's the ideal outcome, I guess a positive POPLA outcome would be next, and lastly if it comes to it - a positive court outcome.

Thanks for the reply!

burtreynolds

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You have the right idea with your planned approach. Did you see in the 'LBCCC Fightback' sticky thread that I recently linked a letter which just got a case back to POPLA stage after a LBCCC was challenged?

Just went back and found it, yeah I read that earlier, great letter and result!

When did you send that? As an initial response to the LBCCC or later down the line after they send the same old guff?

Cheers.

Redx

it was ken (not CM) , in this thread on the same page 1 as yours https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4835679

Coupon-mad

It went in pretty swiftly as the second response, after a LBCCC had been formally rebutted by ken and then PE had sent their 'blizzard of paper' court cases drivel.