Advice on eviction

Annisele

The only thing in your story that makes me even think of the possibility of mortgage fraud is that you've got a residential mortgage on a property you're not living in. There are plenty of ways for that to happen without there being any fraud at all (which is why I said I wasn't making any accusations), but it's another thing to add to all the reasons you should seek professional advice.

The lender will have asked you at the outset who will be living in the property. If you said you would be, when you knew all along that you wouldn't, then that's mortgage fraud. The chances of anybody deciding to prosecute you are extremely slim - partly because the lender has made no loss, and partly because it would be very difficult to prove you didn't intend to live there from outset. (That is another reason to seek professional advice; depending on your actual circumstances it might still be possible for you to drop yourself in it with the lender).

Even if you didn't answer all questions honestly at the beginning, I'd expect the absolute worst the lender would do is repossess. It probably wouldn't even do that; the more likely thing is that it would either ignore the issue completely or increase the interest rate.

As to the undue influence, I'm a little concerned about the whole "buying property at an undervalue from desperate suicidal father" thing. I suspect your parents could pretty easily spin a story that said you took advantage of their desperation to stay in their home.

I think your plan to call the solicitor first thing Monday is a good one :-)

Rocky99

Thank you for your reply.

With concerns to the undue influence I can completely see where your coming from. The only thing that I can see is for some reason my parents have this obsession for this house, perhaps because it's in a posh part of town, I don't know but consideration to leave that house was never an option.
At the time of the debt catching up they could have easily sold that house, paid off their debt and brought a better suited house with the left over money from the sale?
Ever since they have become aware of us struggling I have heard numerous times that I should take them to Switzerland and get them 'bumped' off (their words). Not something a daughter really wants to here? My mum has said that if crunch time happens 'please don't make us move as I think it would kill your father!' And the most recent, happening just after I told them we could no longer afford the mortgage was that my dad had prostate cancer. Feeling like the WORST person in the world in wondering if this is a tactic?? Could this be undue influence but reversed?

Again thank you all for your thoughts and advice!

BigAunty

Rocky99 wrote: »

Ever since they have become aware of us struggling I have heard numerous times that I should take them to Switzerland and get them 'bumped' off (their words). Not something a daughter really wants to here? My mum has said that if crunch time happens 'please don't make us move as I think it would kill your father!' And the most recent, happening just after I told them we could no longer afford the mortgage was that my dad had prostate cancer. Feeling like the WORST person in the world in wondering if this is a tactic?? Could this be undue influence but reversed?

Try only to worry about the things that you can control and apply your attention to these, such as sorting out your marriage and money problems, ensuring you don't slide into debt. Most of those things you cite are out of your sphere of influence.

Yes, your dad may be ill (or it may be a tissue of lies) but that's coincidental to a huge burden you've suffered over the last 5 years and it is not your fault that their security of tenure is under threat, nor does anyone contract cancer because of their housing status.

You cannot pay the mortgage, full stop. Your parents did not make the necessary changes to make their retirement problem free, they made themselves utterly dependent on you at the expense of you being able to provide essential footwear for your child. You are breaking free of this toxic co-dependency, not because you want to, but because you have to as you have no money and they have not offered to pay a penny towards their housing costs.

On full state pensions and with pension credit (if they have full entitlements), they maybe receive £300 a week and little or no council tax to pay? Do you know what their income is - does your dad have a private pension? You can check their benefit entitlements on the Turn2us online benefit checker.

Here are a couple of threads by people that have had to evict their own relatives and the extreme abuse, emotional blackmail and pressure they've been put under by their relatives who are totally self absorbed and feel a great deal of entitlement. These will make you feel not so very alone - their tenants have bent over backwards to be awkward.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3762265

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4833365
forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4833315

A solicitor will tell you if the hasty note that your father forced you to sign has any bearing on the S21 process or whether this is a matter they need to take up a separate legal process to address.

AFAIK, an S21, if correctly served, cannot be defended and the judge must award possession back to the landlord so it is only if it has been poorly completed or wrongly served (admin issues) that can thwart it, such as the landlord putting in the wrong dates or not being able to demonstrate the tenants have received it. A solicitor may be able to verify if you've served it correctly.

dodger1

Rocky99 wrote: »

I feel like the worst daughter I'm the world but I have to put my children first for once!

Well you're not, you just happen to terrible parents. Always put your children first. As far as the actual problem is concerned, it's time to get legal advice when those in the know here aren't sure about the legalities in this case.

It may take some time to get them out but if there is some ridiculous law protecting them, well then I'd have to agree with others about defaulting on the mortgage. Frankly if you now can't afford the mortgage and your own rent your debts will quickly spiral and your good credit history will be obliterated anyway.

BigAunty

dodger1 wrote: »

It may take some time to get them out but if there is some ridiculous law protecting them, well then I'd have to agree with others about defaulting on the mortgage. Frankly if you now can't afford the mortgage and your own rent your debts will quickly spiral and your good credit history will be obliterated anyway.

Again, I want to emphasise this as a last resort because Shelter are experts and also clearly warn what a risky strategy this is. Any current equity in the property could be lost by the time the bank sells it at auction for a pittance and adds on their fees, repair costs and so forth. Being passive in this way could end up with the OP having more debt than trying to prevent repossession and sell at market value.

Other options include negotiating with the lender, trying to get a payment holiday and so forth - Shelter outline the options.

And may be the OP should move into the property when they regain possession if the mortgage is cheaper than their rental property...

Here's some advice from MSE

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/mortgage-arrears-help

bitsandpieces

I agree that getting legal advice would make sense, even if you do need to pay for it - the situation sounds complicated. If money is tight, it may be worth a shot to see if a local law centre could help you...though to be honest, as a property owner looking to evict the residents, it seems unlikely... You don't have free legal advice included with your home insurance?

Sorry to hear that your dad is saying he has prostate cancer. If this is causing him symptoms or needing treatment, it might be worth him looking to see if he is entitled to any extra benefits (from which he might pay you) as a result. Hopefully, though, he has a non-aggressive variant of the disease - some prostate cancer never progresses enough to need treatment in a man's lifetime.

I know you say this would be hard, but - depending in part on the advice you get - it might be worth seriously considering moving in with your parents, so you no longer need to pay rent. This may not be a good situation, but lots of the other options (e.g. defaulting) also come with problems

dancingfairy

Gosh it sounds horrendous and very, very stressful. I can understand putting your parents needs first for time but now they are causing undue stress on you and your family They are adults and will have to sort themselves out. You have to do what's right by your husband and children, it sounds like there's really nothing more you can do to help your parents They have to want to help themselves.
I wonder if counselling would help, just to help you see the wood for the tress, and help you feel less guilty and to accept that there is nothing more you could possibly have done to help them.
I think that you are going to have to cut all ties to your parents, just for your own sanity once you have resolved the house issue.
Do get a solicitor to guide you through all this. Do you have any insurance on the house that covers legal issues or through work or anything like that?
Stay strong.
df

marliepanda

Would using the legal cover on the mortgage be problematic, using legal cover on a residential mortgage to remove tenants when the owner never lived there?

Stings

There's some excellent advice on National Debtline I believe for protecting tenants, and sites specifically for landlords to help with this type of issue. I'm afraid I can't post links at present.

jamie11

This is certainly unusual, but a couple of points.............

If the parents have never paid rent then I believe this cannot be classed as an AST, there are conditions of a minimum rent that must be paid for it to be so.

That means that if you did send a S21 to them it is of no effect simply because it's not an AST.

What does that leave?

They are not squatters because they are there with your permission in the first place, so no help there.

That leaves a contractual tenancy, even if only verbal.

In a contractual tenancy it's the terms of the contract itself you have to rely on.
a judge is going to assign probabilities to this phantom contract and will probably make an order based on his reasoning. I think it will come down to a 'he said..........I said' situation.

As everybody else says, you need a good property lawyer, and I'm going to stick my neck out here and tell you to pm Richard Webster, a member here and ask his best (paid) advice. He may be able to take your case on or recommend someone to you.

Above are just my thoughts, none of them may be correct.