Support group mix up - advice etc wanted please :)

rogerblack

Retrovertigo wrote: »

Yeah, they are claiming that as soon as she saw she had put me in the support group, she changed it to WRAG and sent out a correcting letter, notifying me of the mistake and that I was in WRAG and this replaced any other letters I received. I received no such notification.

They are only required to send out the letter - it doesn't matter if you get it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/compensation-for-poor-service-a-guide-for-dwp-staff - I would also consider.

Simply accepting poor service - or complaining on the telephone does absolutely nothing to improve things.

Only official complaints, or requests for compensation show up in statistics.

GirlFromMars_2

Retrovertigo wrote: »

I think in the past someone has said regulation 35 might apply, as they can't expect me to potentially cause more physical harm to myself?

... yes, one of the reasons my tribunal overturned the original decision was Regulation 35 ... even if none of the descriptors apply they can put you in the support group if they think regulation 35 applies!

edit: looking at those descriptors, I'd already told them about continually walking. I smashed my legs badly and it is always painful to walk. Certainly trying to walk 50m many times would cause a LOT of pain. I explained that in detail and the pains I suffer in them. I'm getting the feeling that a LOT of what I put wasn't even read.

... make sure what you and your doctor are saying is clear and in terms they understand! ... ie you cannot walk 50m repeatedly, reliably and safely ...

p.s and of course, if I hear back from my MP (they have replied to me in the past fairly quickly over another matter) I'll absolute contact you about it

... hopefully they'll be able to help you get that elusive apology! .... and maybe stop this happening to someone else in the future!

GirlFromMars_2

rogerblack wrote: »

This is a correct and legal decision by a decisionmaker, notified in the proper manner.

You are, until a fresh decision is made, superseding this one _and_notified_to_you_ in the support group.

What the DM intended to do does not matter, unless and until they make a superseding decision.

... how does this work in reality though? ... I only ever received a Support Group notification ... and the DWP don't claim to have sent me anything other than that one notification ... yet according to everything they had on their system I was in the WRAG and had to adhere to the WRAG rules and regulations ... I was told I had to attend the jobcentre interview and had no other option ... and I'm betting if I'd not been moved to the support group before hand they would have limited me to the 365 day rule ...

... I asked for the correct information, and it was never ever sent ... no matter what it said in my letter as far as the DWP were concerned I was in the WRAG, and there was really very little point in me arguing ...

... I guess if I knew I didn't fit the Support Group descriptors it may have been worth trying to blag it ... but as I was appealing to be in the Support Group I wanted to get on with that as soon as possible ...

... So ... how do you get the DWP to admit that you are in the Support Group if their system says WRAG when the only notification they have ever sent is wrong? ... I couldn't even get them to send out the correct WRAG notification, and that would obviously have been in their interests ...

... yes I may eventually have won a tribunal staying they sent out the wrong notification, but until that point I'd still have had to deal with everyone in the DWP and Jobcentre insisting that I was in the WRAG?

Thanks!

Morglin

Until this mess is sorted out, you do need to attend the interview - however, where ESA claimants are concerned, this often involves a short chat and the advisor sending the claimant away, so they can get on with trying to place the fit into work!

They even do phone calls at times.

When you speak to the advisor, make him/her aware of all your medical problems and difficulties, with how they will impact on any work.

Good luck with the appeal, and I would certainly pursue this with your MP.

Lin

Retrovertigo

Right...phone call didn't go too well. Got a know it all who didn't want to listen. He seemed solely focused on the walking thing. He wouldn't even broach the subject of standing, sitting, using stairs...none of it. Nor any of the later questions where I mention anxiety attacks.

After much deliberation (because of contraindications) my G/P started me on a small dose of Diazepam today - they weren't interested.

The guy starts saying they have decided I can walk 50m or more repeatedly and reliably. I have told him it would cause me a lot of pain and his response..."surely you take pain medication, can't you just increase the dosage?" I pointed out that my pain meds aren't just for my legs but for my neck and back where they were broken and so my G.P and I have a pretty good idea after all this time of how many pain meds I can take, and that of course I can;t just increase the dose on a whim.

I asked if they were asking that of me, didn't that contradict Regulation 35 - and he read something out implying it didn't. I also queried in the same sentence about my neck and back.

Next I told him that my neck pain was by far the worst pain and the most debilitating and he said..."can't you get an operation on it then. I had a bad back and had an operation on that." I pointed out that I had provided medical evidence from the hospital that it was too risky to operate so high up on my neck as there was a risk of paralysis. He just said "oh right. Of course" (anyone getting the feeling we aren't dealing with a doctor here )

Basically he wouldn't go through any questions. Said I had scored LOT of points, but not the maximum for any one question, which is nonsense because I know what I answered.

He clearly had no medical knowledge of the medication I am taking, the fact that it is risky as it is to be taking Diazepam with it and that he thought just because it suited them, I'd shove some more down my neck. Oh and ended with a corker... "We can put you in WRAG now, because who knows what medical advances they will have in the future to help with your conditions"...I kid you not, he actually spoke those words.

So back to the doctor, who will be livid at the suggestion I increase my meds so that I could "suffer" even more. Absolutely crazy.

I've sent off an email complaint about all the medication stuff, as it isn't his place at all to suggest that. Especially not when he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

His final words were, we probably won't deal with the appeal this week....should bring a smile to girlfrommars' face that one...haha

GirlFromMars_2

... is this the way of handling mandatory reconsideration, over the phone? ... very strange! ... even if they stick with their decision then you can still take it to the tribunal, who are totally independent ...

... I'd definitely get your GP to write a letter focusing on the Schedule 3 descriptors before your tribunal ... the DWP seem to find it easy to dispute what people say about their own conditions, but it's much harder for them to dispute if it's in your medical evidence!

Sorry to hear you've had another stressful day! ... is there a CAB type place you get get to help you with the appeal nearby?

eadieb

Hi, under the new appeals system, as soon as you get your mandatory reconsideration letter, you have 28 days to lodge an appeal with the appeals service. They use a new form now which you can download from internet and you must attach a copy of the mandatory decision notice with it. its a different address to the old appeals service.

Retrovertigo

Right....I hope that the appeal letter takes a while. Or when it comes what do you need to include with it? The guy says I should get a further report from my G.P - but my G.P has pointed out that it is winter and there are a lot of sick eldrely people, and kids. And due to the amount of medical notes I have, he can't just rattle of a report in no time. It took him several weeks to do the last one he had started. That worries me.

They did say it might be a while before it arrives though, so I guess I have time? Or am allowed to forward things on after the fact? I can't force my G.P to put me above other patients.

And yeah girlfrommars - they do the initial reconsideration over the phone. And as is clear from my experience yesterday, whoever does it has no medical training, and hadn't read any of my notes before speaking to me. Which is disgusting to be honest. How do I put forward my argument to someone who isn't even aware of my answers and extra notes? Done on purpose I'm sure to further complicate the process.

GirlFromMars_2

The DWP decision maker won't be medically trained, but they will have a report from a medical professional (even if you didn't have an ATOS medical, an Atos nurse/doctor will have read & assessed your ESA50 form and made a recommendation.

As a point of interest, the medical professional who assessed my ESA50 said that in all likelihood I would meet the support group criteria if I were called for an Atos medical and asked to provide further medical evidence ... they never did call me for an interview or ask for more medical evidence though!

I find it really appalling that the decision maker hadn't familiarised themselves with your case before calling you though! ... I had a phone call with a DWP decision maker over a different issue & I felt they were very rushed & had only skimmed my case for the surface facts, it was very hard to get them to listen to what the real issues were, even though I'd clearly stated them in letters that they should have read already!

Don't worry about the GP taking his time ... the tribunal system will undoubtedly take a lot longer, and you can submit medical evidence right up until the day of your tribunal, although obviously you should send it as early as possible. Remember though, that the medical evidence should always be about how your condition affected you at the time the DWP decision was made.

When asking my GP for a letter to send to the DWP I write my own letter, and take this along to my GP so that he has something succinct to remind him who I am, what my conditions are and how my symptoms affect my every day life, so he knows what I am telling the DWP so that he can agree/disagree with me as necessary. It doesn't usually take my GP long to dictate a report (he's OCD about everything, the receptionists tease him!) but it's written up by the practice's Medical Secretary, and when she was away once it did take a long time for me to get it back. She was great actually, I needed it the afternoon she returned home from holiday, so I phoned that morning & she put it on top of her pile so it was ready when I needed it.

Good luck, and make sure you lodge the appeal in time even if you don't have the medical evidence ready yet!

Retrovertigo

This has taken another turn for the worse. When I went ahead and had to visit the job centre the other week, the girl said she would keep an eye on my appeal and send for me if it was unsuccessful, otherwise I wouldn't hear from her again.

I get another letter this morning asking me to go for another work related job centre interview just 3 weeks after the last one. I call the girl up as I assume she has had some new one way or the other from my appeal. She has heard nothing at all so checks her system, and there is NOTHING on there to say I am appealing.

She suggested I call the DWP, so I do and speak to a guy who actually sounded very friendly and helpful. He could see some mention of me phoning them, but there is nothing he could see to suggest I was appealing. This is despite the fact I had had the callback for the start of the mandatory reconsideration.

I'd passed on some tidbits from my G.P with regards where they tried to mark me down on the atos form - despite the answers I had given, but of course until I get a full report back he can't even begin to type stuff up.

It is made worse because he has done half a report and now needs to mess around doing all this. The half report was done as he was writing one up but then I was told I was in the support group so he abandoned it.

Someone is supposed to be calling me back today to let me know exactly what is going on. Meantime I had written to my M.P because of how they had handled this and he has replied and is waiting on what I hear back. I'll be sending him off an email today letting him know what is going on.

My doctor has put me on Diazpema short term as I was coping really badly with all this. I am near the end of them and am scared to take any more as I don't want to become hooked on them thanks to the benefits people. What a mess....I'm shaking like a leaf I'm that anxious about it all. It is now 60 days since I received the letter saying I was in the support group and I have had no correspondence at all to correct it.