Not so nISA if you move abroad!

Nobby29

My intention was to save for a pension through a self-select ISA. I did so originally through Etrade and then when they no longer operated in the UK through TD Direct (formerly T D Waterhouse). Then I moved abroad. I contacted T D Direct and the tax office who assured me that I could still retain my ISA, though not invest new capital from this point onwards. After a short while living abroad, T D Direct stated I should prove my location (money laundering blah blah) and despite much inconvenience and expense I had to get to the British Embassy and get the High Commissioner himself to sign and seal a letter stating I was who I said I was and that I was living in the country indicated.

This was recently sent to me by T D Direct:

We have recently conducted a review of the financial viability of our client accounts. Your account has been identified as part of this review. In addition, it has come to our attention that you are resident in a country that we are unable to support.
We have therefore taken the decision to close your account(s) with us. We reserve the right to close your account under clause 22 of our current client Terms of Service.
Important Dates

From xx January 2014 you will no longer be able to purchase shares or deposit assets into your account. If the removal of assets from your account has not commenced by xx February 2014 we will apply a full account block, this will prevent you from trading, making cash movements and withdrawing/transferring stock in and out of your account. These blocks will remain in place until such time as you contact us.

I then sent a response back stating how delighted I was that they used such as ‘financial viability’

[FONT=&quot]I am sorry that we have not responded to your complaint and that you are unhappy with our service. We are still investigating your concerns and will endeavour to resolve your complaint as quickly as possible and in line with our Complaints procedure below.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
After conducting a more thorough investigation, we hope to have an answer to your complaint within the next 10 working days. If we are unable to meet this timescale we will let you know. We may not send our full response by email, as it may include confidential information, in which case we will call you or write to you as soon as we have completed our investigations. However, if you would still prefer for us to send a response by email, please let us know and we will do our best to meet your needs.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Did they respond? Er, no. So on xx December I sent another email asking what was happening.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You received an email from us advising you that we had taken the decision to close your account, due to the financial viability of the account and the country in which you reside. I am sorry that you found the wording of the email unacceptable. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Each country is assessed on its risk of money laundering, terrorist financing and political unrest by the Financial Action Task Force. A risk based decision was made by our parent company in Canada to close accounts where the account holders reside in high risk jurisdictions and where they are no longer financially viable. I would like to assure you that this is not because of the way you manage your account, this is a business decision for all accounts within these high risk jurisdictions.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]High risk jurisdictions my Aunt. I have lived here for 4 years, this is hokum and what’s more this is my money, not theirs, if I suffer, my relatives will receive MY money iaw MY will, end of story. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In line with the FCA rules governing complaint handling I am obliged to tell you that this is the firm’s final response.[/FONT]

You can contact the financial ombudsman etc etc. I have done so once before and many of my colleagues have too. It is not a path I shall be taking again.


[FONT=&quot]Clause 22: Aka Get out of Jail free!
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]22[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Termination [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22.1[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We or you may terminate these Terms and our obligation to provide the Services by [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]giving notice to the other, which will take effect immediately or after such period as may [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]be specified in the notice, in accordance with these Terms. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22.2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Termination of the Stockbroking Services will not affect any outstanding transactions [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]or any rights or obligations which may already have arisen between you and us. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Transactions in progress at the date of termination will be completed by us as soon as [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]practicable subject to these Terms. The termination of these Terms will not affect the [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]coming into force or the continuance in force of any provision in these Terms which is [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]expressly, or by implication, intended to come into, or continue in force, on or after such [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]termination. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22.3[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Notwithstanding the provisions of clause 22.5 and 22.6 of these Terms, if termination [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]occurs, we will, as soon as reasonably practicable, subject to these Terms, arrange the [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]delivery to you, or to your order, of any money or investments in your Account(s) subject [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to any applicable charges as set out on the Rates and Charges. A final statement will [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]be issued to you where appropriate. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22.4[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Notwithstanding the provisions of clause 22.1 of these Terms, we will give you at [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]least thirty (30) days’ prior written notice of the closure of any Account opened by us [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]for you under the Terms of the Banking Services providing there are no exceptional [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]circumstances such as suspected fraud in relation to any Account. Interest will not [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]accrue on any Account once it has been closed. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22.5[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If your Account is terminated we may make a minimum charge for administration. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please see the Rates and Charges for full details. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22.6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We reserve the right to close your Account without providing you with notification [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]should it lay dormant and hold a zero cash balance and not contain any investments [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]for a period of six months or more.After termination of your Account, if any money or [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]investments are received into your closed Account, we may make a minimum charge for [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]administration. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please see the Rates and Charges for full details. [/FONT]

Contrary_clive

Why not just transfer your ISA to someone else?

eskbanker

Contrary_clive wrote: »

Why not just transfer your ISA to someone else?

I agree - there doesn't seem any prospect of being able to convince TD Direct to change their minds and given that they seem to be following their Ts & Cs (even though you (OP) don't like them) I wouldn't have thought that the ombudsman would be able or willing to intervene.

Nobby29 wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]High risk jurisdictions my Aunt. I have lived here for 4 years, this is hokum[/FONT]

The fact that your opinion about the risk profile of the jurisdiction you're in differs from their parent company's (even if this wasn't the case four years ago) doesn't really enter into it I'm afraid....

dtaylor84

Nobby29 wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]High risk jurisdictions my Aunt. I have lived here for 4 years, this is hokum and what’s more this is my money, not theirs, if I suffer, my relatives will receive MY money iaw MY will, end of story. [/FONT]

I'm not sure what you think your will has to do with it? They're not even remotely concerned about the safety of your life or your money. They feel that the jurisdiction you live in has sufficiently poor regulation/oversight/.../whatever that they are at risk of being involved in money laundering or fraud, and being on the wrong end of a hefty fine like HSBC.

opinions4u

All that long post and I don't think you've mentioned which country you're resident in ...

Nobby29

Many thanks to all who posted a response, I truly value all comments.
As is stated, I am new to the forum, so thanks for the understanding.

Yes of course I could transfer, but while there are no costs for leaving TD Direct, would there not be fairly serious costs though to buy a 40-share portfolio again? And what costs! And what time! In regard to not mentioning the country, that was deliberate, but I understand the point. In regard to the money laundering point, why send me to the British Embassy causing me great cost and inconvenience and then a year later make me shut the whole thing down. I'm sure you might surmise that maybe their own regs have changed, but you have to admit the language used, the inconvenience caused, the lack of understanding, the weak you can refer to the ombudsman, the whole if you are unhappy with our decision you can Vs this is our final decision et al isn't exactly marvellous.

pip895

I don't think you need to sell your holdings to transfer them. Contact a few other providers and check that out. I moved funds without selling out so I don't see that shares would be different.

Nobby29

Many thanks Pip, I shall certainly check that option.

noh

Do you reside in one of the following "High risk and non cooperative jurisdictions"?
http://www.fatf-gafi.org/topics/high-riskandnon-cooperativejurisdictions/

Algeria
Ecuador
Ethiopia
Indonesia
Kenya
Myanmar
Pakistan
Syria
Tanzania
Turkey
Yemen

Nobby29

No Noh, but thank you.

eskbanker

Nobby29 wrote: »

In regard to the money laundering point, why send me to the British Embassy causing me great cost and inconvenience and then a year later make me shut the whole thing down. I'm sure you might surmise that maybe their own regs have changed, but you have to admit the language used, the inconvenience caused, the lack of understanding, the weak you can refer to the ombudsman, the whole if you are unhappy with our decision you can Vs this is our final decision et al isn't exactly marvellous.

I'm sure nobody is expecting you to be thrilled about the situation, but as far as I can see the key issue here is: is there anything you can do about it? You may feel (understandably) aggrieved at how they've gone about this but, as there really doesn't appear to be any likelihood of them changing their mind or the ombudsman directing them to do so, shifting the ISA elsewhere seems to be the only realistic option rather than wasting energy on trying to fight TD Direct.

It would be interesting to hear what other providers say when you advise them where you're living though.