UKCPS Fine - LBC - Too late to do anything?

RyanSunderland

Letter has been sent, hopefully they won't take too long to respond.

4consumerrights

RyanSunderland wrote: »

Thanks 4consumerrights

The property I rent does not allocate me a space. There is a back lane behind my building which runs from 1-5 (which are all blocks of flats), I live in number 5. This back lane is council owned and single yellow lined, in the center there is a paved area for parking surrounded by single yellow lined roads, anyone is allowed to park here and it is council property. Behind buildings 1-4 there are places to park with signs on the walls stating 'Permit holders only' by UKCPS, these spaces are always empty, the council owned part however is always full and its sometimes very difficult to get a space as it is in the town center. Where I parked was behind number 4 in my street although my ticket states '1-2'.

My landlord has nothing to do with them I don't think the owner of the building is going to care and does not want people parking here in the first place.

I wish it was in a retail park where I got my ticket, everybody on here seems to get them cancelled :P

I'm trying to visualise the set up from your description here - however if it is council owned - then you should really be contacting the council over this as it may not even be private property - it won't be the first time that a PPC has tried to ticket someone on council land - so do check.

Glad to hear that you've responded to UKCPS version of the LBC usual "10 day warning letter" as per CM's instructions - hope it was a strong rebuttal of denying the charge - did you put in a counterclaim clause.

You really should check out via the management company who engaged UKCPS - but be aware - even if a self ticketer they will be on a back-hander payout.

RyanSunderland

So I've had an appeal rejection letter from UKCPS and they have supplied the POPLA code.

I've checked the POPLA code on the parking cowboys website and I have 18 days to appeal.

I've had a look around some other POPLA appeals here on the forum and here is a draft of my POPLA appeal, any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Dear POPLA,
I am the registered keeper of vehicle reg **** *** and I contend that I am not liable for the parking charge and the vehicle was not improperly parked. I wish to appeal against the notice on the following grounds.

1) Lack of BPA compliant signage
It was dark when this incident occurred, the signage in the area is not easy to read, the signs are too high to read upon approaching this area, the lettering is too small, the signs are dirty and in darkness they are not visible. The sign is not reflective and there is no lighting in the area what so ever.
(BPA CoP Appendix B, Signage: Signs should be readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk if and when parking enforcement activity takes place at those times. This can be achieved in a variety of ways such as by direct lighting or by using the lighting for the parking area. If the sign itself is not directly or indirectly lit, we suggest that it should be made of a retro-reflective material similar to that used on public roads and described in the Traffic Signs Manual. Dark-coloured areas do not need to be reflective.)

2) Lack of Proprietary interest and non-compliant contract with landowner
I believe that UKCPS Ltd does not have sufficient interest on this land to issue contracts to anyone. Please note that the address on the PCN is ‘1-2 ******** Street’; the ticket was issued at the rear of 4 ******** Street which is where the incident actually occurred.
(BPA CoP Section 7.1: If you do not own the land on which you are carrying out parking management, you must have the written authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed agent) before you can start operating on the land in question. The authorisation must give you the authority to carry out all the aspects of the management and enforcement of the site that you are responsible for. In particular, it must say that the landowner requires you to keep to the Code of Practice, and that you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges, through the courts if necessary.)

3) The charge is a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
The charge demanded far exceeds any loss to the landowner. If t exceeds any loss, it becomes a penalty.
POPLA assessor Mathew Shaw has stated that the entirety of the parking charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss in order to be enforceable. For example, were no breach to have occurred, then the cost of parking enforcement, such as erecting signage, would still have been the same. The estimate must be based upon loss flowing from a break of the parking terms, and in this instance there was no such loss.

bod1467

When did you receive the rejection letter?

What date is the postmark? (If one is visible)

Unless you've been sitting on this for a few days before coming back here then it looks like they've short-changed you with the POPLA code - another breach of the BPA CoP if I'm not mistaken. (A POPLA code is valid for 28 days from generation).

4consumerrights

What do the signs say - do they mention failure to comply or breach?

UKCPS attempt contractual charges - so it is important to know as your section 3 will require slight amendments and bring in UTCC and UTCPR

You need to change the wording somewhat to reflect the Registered Keeper and the driver on the day.

Add to the signage section that no contract was formed with the driver due to the signage not being visible, adequate and meeting BPA COP. etc


The no contract section with the landowner - you need to add that you require that UKCPS supply a full unredacted copy of their contract which permits them to pursue these parking charges in their own name through the courts. Include that as a tenant you have proprietary interest conveyed through your AST agreement and rental paymemts and that parking is paid for as part of this agreement to the landlord and you are entitled by law to peaceful enjoyment of the property. Add that as there was no loss this parking charge cannot be recovered - this is confimed by the OFT who state that parking charges are not automatically recoverable because they state they are parking charges, they cannot be simply recovered where no loss has been incurred.

Also have you checked that the NtK is fully compliant with POFA and that they are able to pursue keeper liability?

Do a little more research and amend post up another copy.

4consumerrights

bod1467 wrote: »

When did you receive the rejection letter?

What date is the postmark? (If one is visible)

Unless you've been sitting on this for a few days before coming back here then it looks like they've short-changed you with the POPLA code - another breach of the BPA CoP if I'm not mistaken. (A POPLA code is valid for 28 days from generation).

Good point Bod - missed that!

Is this UKCPS latest tact holding on to POPLA codes or not supplying correct length of time.

To the OP - UKCPS were recently instructed to cancel a load of parking charges as they sent out false POPLA codes nine numerical digits and the letter P instead of 10 numerical digits. Prankster did a blog on this.

RyanSunderland

Thanks for the response guys.

The rejection letter is dated the 31st Jan, the letters go to my dads address and he didn't tell me I had post which is why i'm late to respond. The POPLA code checker said that the code was generated on the 29th.

I did originally check through the NTK and found that is was compliant. I will however double check this later today when I have the opportunity.

I'll also check the signs and see what they say.

RyanSunderland

I have double checked the NTK and the sign which are both compliant, except for the problems with the sign I have already pointed out.

The sign basically says Private Land Contractual Agreement, Permit Holders Only. But is fully compliant as far as the information is contains goes.

Coupon-mad

The sign basically says Private Land Contractual Agreement, Permit Holders Only.

Yep but I have seen two different versions just this week from posters! One was a larger white with blue writing sign which tried to make it a contractual agreement but also used the word 'contravention' or similar!

- Can you show a pic of this sign please. You may need to break the link to post it here (remove the http:// and put a gap in the URL).

- Does the Notice to Keeper repeat the same parking time on it as was on the PCN or does it give it as 0.00?

- Does the Notice to keeper describe UKCPS as 'creditor' anywhere at all?

- Did you write only as keeper so far, no implying who was driving at all? Can you show us your 'challenge' letter wording and their response as I am amazed they coughed a POPLA code so easily when you'd had 4 letters and were (in their eyes) too late for POPLA). Almost too good to be true for UKCPS so I'd like to see the letters.

- Did you write as Dad so far?

RyanSunderland

Ok so here is the sign, I apologise for the photo quality, the camera on my phone is cracked so its very blurry.



The NTK and the PCN both have the same time. The NTK does include a part at the bottom which states 'Payment must be made to the creditor UKCPS Ltd.

This is the letter I sent before receiving the POPLA code:

Dear Sir/Madame,
I write to you regarding the above PCN; following legal advice, I wish appeal on the following grounds:!
!

My appeal is partly based on the assertion that your parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss to yourself or the landowner. In every case where a motorist has raised this issue against you, POPLA have accepted the appeal. You are therefore fully aware that there is no prospect of your charge being upheld.

The signage in the area is not easy to read, the signs are too high to read upon approaching this area, the lettering is too small, the signs are dirty and in darkness they are not visible.
(BPA CoP Appendix B, Signage: Signs should be readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk if and when parking enforcement activity takes place at those times. This can be achieved in a variety of ways such as by direct lighting or by using the lighting for the parking area. If the sign itself is not directly or indirectly lit, we suggest that it should be made of a retro-reflective material similar to that used on public roads and described in the Traffic Signs Manual. Dark-coloured areas do not need to be reflective.)
!

I believe your company does not have sufficient interest on this land to issue contracts to anyone. Please note that the address on the PCN is ‘1-2 ****** St’; I am aware that you are issuing tickets to drivers that are parking at the rear of 3 and 4 ****** St which is where the alleged incident actually occurred.
(BPA CoP Section 7.1: If you do not own the land on which you are carrying out parking management, you must have the written authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed agent) before you can start operating on the land in question. The authorisation must give you the authority to carry out all the aspects of the management and enforcement of the site that you are responsible for. In particular, it must say that the landowner requires you to keep to the Code of Practice, and that you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges, through the courts if necessary.)

If you do reject the appeal and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I will claim my expenses from you. The expenses I will claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

If you reject this appeal, I require within 35 days a POPLA verification code for me to appeal independently as per the requirements set out on the POPLA web site, further supported by the BPA Code of Practice.

You have been given the reasons for the appeal above. I have nothing further to currently add, and will not respond to any correspondence from your company unless it contains the POPLA code.

Be aware that there will be formal complaints to POPLA and to the BPA if there is no POPLA code on any rejection that you supply.!
!

Yours Faithfully

I have never implied that I am the keeper or the driver of the vehicle. So far it has been address and signed from my dad yeh.