lease company just paid my PCN on private land what are my rights

smittenkitten

I have a car through a leasing company.

The leasing company received a PCN from Civic Enforcement Ltd and the leasing company then wrote twice to to inform them of who the driver. (only told this now).

On both occasions CE ltd ignored the letters and proceeded to send the notices to the leasing company.

The leasing company then deciced to pay and sent me an invoice to pay them!

The first I knew of all of the above was when i received the invoice from the lease company.

i have not had the legal right to challenge the PCN as this was paid
Any advice gratefully recieved

Coupon-mad

Interesting. I think I would try to 2 pronged attack.

- do you have a copy of the Notice to Keeper that CEL sent, and what date was it issued and what date was the 'parking event'? Get a copy from the stupid lease firm and put the charge into dispute as it was never theirs to pay, do not settle this charge with the lease co. Refuse and say they should never have paid it and you are complaining to them for paying a fake PCN which was not their business, and tell them you are also complaining to the BPA about CEL (which is what the lease co. should have done when they got a further letter, not PAID it!). Does the CEL paperwork mention 'keeper liability' and the 'Protection of Freedoms Act 2012'? Get a copy and check, and get a copy from the lease co of both the letters they sent which gave your details as driver.

- once you have a copy of the paperwork including a copy of both letters that the lease firm sent naming you as the driver, send copies of them all to the BPA Ltd at this email address:

[EMAIL="steve.c@britishparking.co.uk"]steve.c@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL]

...and tell him what you just told us, and point out if (as I suspect) the CEL Notice wasn't even one which established any keeper liability. IMHO, CEL deserve sanction points for pursuing a keeper when they had the name and address of the driver (seriously hope the lease firm had at least the brain cells needed to give an address for you as well as a name...). Remember the BPA are not a regulator and are not on your side, they represent the PPCs - but they can take action when PPCs step out of line as, it seems, has happened here. So not a 'please/thankyou' grovelling email to the BPA; it should be polite but assertive 'what action are you going to take about this?' style.

Please update your thread with what responses you get. This can be overcome, you are not liable for this mess. Was it England/Wales?

4consumerrights

+1 above - Do exactly as coupon says.

Check out the terms of your lease agreement and follow this up with a complaint to the financial obudsman as it should be covered by the Consumer Credit Act.

The_Slithy_Tove

I would suggest that CEL have possibly committed a fraud, or at least obtianing money by deception, by continuing to invoice a party that they knew had no liability to pay anything.

pvt

Ask the leasing company if they would still have paid the invoice they received if it had been for £5,000?

If their answer is yes, please let me know who they are and what their invoicing address is :-)

warwicktiger

I would check the small print of your lease agreement. Lease companies nowadays write it into the agreement that they will proceed in this way, to avoid disputes with parking companies over their vehicles.

The_Slithy_Tove

warwicktiger wrote: »

I would check the small print of your lease agreement. Lease companies nowadays write it into the agreement that they will proceed in this way, to avoid disputes with parking companies over their vehicles.

That would be highly dodgy. Paying the first invoice and passing on the charge is one thing, and we have seen it many times. But in this case, the lease company discharged their liability by giving CEL the driver's details. Therefore they had no liability, no risk. Even with such a clause, they would still be paying an invoice they had no justification to do.

Coupon-mad

warwicktiger wrote: »

I would check the small print of your lease agreement. Lease companies nowadays write it into the agreement that they will proceed in this way, to avoid disputes with parking companies over their vehicles.

We know - but they can't in this particular set of circumstances. Not if they had already given the name and address of the driver; their potential liability had ended and to pay it later on was like paying a phishing emailer and expecting the OP to pick up the tab.

I suspect the person who paid it was a newer or dafter member of staff than the one who sent the name and address of the driver earlier on. And the lease firm are now trying to cover their back for the mistake. But we do need to know that the lease firm sent an address as well as a driver's name - as long as they did then CEL had no further lawful reason to pursue them and should have written to the OP and given the driver a chance to appeal. Not that CEL follow POFA 2012, but they still have to abide by the BPA CoP.

Fergie76

I've never had a lease car, so not sure how they work, but the wife is disabled and she has a Mobility car.

Mobility are the legal owners of the car, but my wife is the registered keeper. Why don't Lease Companies do this? Save an awful lot of problems.

4consumerrights

Fergie76 wrote: »

I've never had a lease car, so not sure how they work, but the wife is disabled and she has a Mobility car.

Mobility are the legal owners of the car, but my wife is the registered keeper. Why don't Lease Companies do this? Save an awful lot of problems.

Depends on the terms and type of leasing agreement - some are like hire purchase types where after the term is paid title is passed over, others are straightforward lease/hire which can be upgraded for newer models periodically.


As for this OPs case CEL were given the name and (hopefully serviceable address) of the driver and should have pursued him/her. Ironic as CEL circumvent POFA and keeper liability anyway. The OP needs to make a stand against the leasing company regarding payment of this charge which obviously could have easily been cancelled at POPLA. The leasing company could have also easily appealed but chose the easy route making the payment and charging the driver.

Fergie76

4consumerrights wrote: »

Depends on the terms and type of leasing agreement - some are like hire purchase types where after the term is paid title is passed over, others are straightforward lease/hire which can be upgraded for newer models periodically.


As for this OPs case CEL were given the name and (hopefully serviceable address) of the driver and should have pursued him/her. Ironic as CEL circumvent POFA and keeper liability anyway. The OP needs to make a stand against the leasing company regarding payment of this charge which obviously could have easily been cancelled at POPLA. The leasing company could have also easily appealed but chose the easy route making the payment and charging the driver.

I understand all that, my question was why don't lease comapanies hand over registered keeper status to the user and they retain ownership?

Mobility car work in pretty much the same way from what I understand. My wife 'leases' the car from Mobility for a period of 3 years and then hands it back. But for this period she is the registered keeper and any invoices land on our door mat, not Mobilities, so they have no chance to pay on our behalf.