UKCPS final notice!!

Sambo09

Thank you!! I have now written my appeal and will send it off tomorrow. Having read up on the BPA code of practise I firmly believe the car park does not comply with "entry signs" guidelines due to the fact there isn't any!! This has given me strong grounds and confidence in my appeal. I will post back as and when I hear anything. Thanks again guys really appreciate the help :-D

Coupon-mad

Sambo09 wrote: »

I'd like to thank everyone for their input and I'm going to write a letter of appeal, in your opinion what would be the best points to address in my letter, should I go down the "lack of signs" route?? Not got a lot of experience in this kind of thing haha

Why are you sending an appeal and not a formal response to a LBCCC as per the LBCCC thread? As I already told you in post #7 and I gave you a link, too. Please read the advice already given, don't send an appeal when you are not at appeal stage. The LBCCC thread even has a post from me with an example of a letter suitable for this stage which forced another PPC to offer a POPLA code even at this stage. Why haven't you just used and adapted a version of that? You already had the link to the LBCCC thread and I advised you to read it all. I also explained you have to acknowledge the letter then formally respond (not 'appeal').

They will love you at court if this is typical of your approach to research, when you get the right advice you've missed it so how would you manage a formal defence? Sorry, wake up call needed - YOU ARE NOT AT APPEAL STAGE, YOU ARE WITHIN A PIECE OF PAPER OF A COURT CLAIM. Stop grasping at what looks like the easiest option of a template appeal but doesn't address the Letter before Claim, doesn't make your case a 'hot potato at all does it? You'd have court papers by the end of the month IMHO.

Big_Bad_Dad

Per Coupon-mad, UKCPs not doing court: this looks like a bluff.

The signage will not have said £125 as the "full charge" and the fact that they have somehow arrived at this figure means they are not serious about trying court. Their charge would have been £100 at most and by seeking more, they will have breached POFA and as such this cannot make the courtroom.

Big_Bad_Dad

Just for the record: POFA doesn't specify a maximum but does contain a clause on the subject of a maximum which is that this must not exceed the amount for which adequate notice was given (i.e. on the signage). The BPA in turn require that if seeking more than £100 as the full non-discount amount, it would need to be justified and calculated in advance - nothing likely for this millennium.

Coupon-mad

UKCPS do court quite a bit. An appeal is not the response needed now. £125 would include the court fee or something - I say they are serious and this appeal is NOT what to send. I have already linked the OP in post #7 to the thread they need to read - their case is the same as Ryan Sutherland's and he has got the hang of what's needed pretty quickly:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4858558

Let's just see whose case goes to court shall we if this OP thinks 'a soft appeal' is the way forward at this last-gasp late stage?!

Big_Bad_Dad

Possibly, though the OP states that £125 is the current demand for settlement and had they submitted court expenses it could only be through having exhausted communications with the target (i.e. the OP would have received court papers and not a plea for the full £100+£25 given to court). Besides from personal experience I know that the court fee is paid at a very late stage, not at the point of issuing proceedings but when it becomes apparent that mediation has failed or will not be taking place. It is common for a "final demand" to exceed that £100 and if UKCPs wish to do this, it is their funeral as the OP can easily defeat them on this breach of POFA regulation.

Coupon-mad

But there hasn't been a breach of POFA (the £100 is a BPA ceiling which doesn't mean much) and we know that this is what UKCPS do. They issue this letter, then court. Ryan Sutherland has the same letter and is preparing his robust response - so I stress that this OP needs to do the same. Not 'appeal'. UKCPS are not usually bluffing and they read this forum and don't do things the same as PE do.

Big_Bad_Dad

Oh crikey I never meant "appeal"!!! Yes he should by all means follow your advice. As for my explanation, if it was a bit convoluted, forgive me. I'll be plainer this time!

IF UKPCs specified in their signage "PRIVATE PARKING, BY BREACHING OUR TERMS YOU AGREE TO PAY £125 REDUCED BY 40% IF PAID WITHIN 14 DAYS"

then yes, they may push for £125 (provided they prove it is their losses resulting from damages). However, if they observed the BPA ceiling of £100 on the signage and somehow in the course of their pursuit lumped the figure to £125, then the defendant has a strong case against them as they have violated the POFA ruling on which figure constitutes maximum. I hope that makes more sense!!!

Sambo09

Here is an extract from the BPA regarding entrance signs

"Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore,
as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Entrance signs must follow some minimum general principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign must take into account the expected speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is recommended that you follow Department forTransport guidance on this. See Appendix B for an example of an entrance sign and more information about their use."

I had already sent my appeal off before seeing the previous messages so unfortunately I'll just have to await the outcome but I based my appeal on this extract above and the fact that the car park in question had no entrance sign, the only signs it had was a small blue sign on one of the office walls that I was aware of. Hopefully I shall prevail in this matter but only time will tell, I thank everyone for their advice on this incident and keep my fingers crossed.

Coupon-mad

Seriously I would not just await the outcome. For the love of God be proactive and send a strong letter like Ryan Sutherland has done, unless you like defending court claims? UKCPS tea-boy Peter Haswell must be laughing at this thread so far and you need to fight back NOW.

What on earth makes you think that you have to sit back and wait when you have STILL NOT formally responded? Your appeal was NOTHING, forget it, it was not appropriate as a response, it was a mistake to send it. So consider it in your head as a soft 'acknowledgement' of the LBA and now move forward to where you should have been.

Can I repeat again, as I said in post #7, you MUST read the linked thread 'LBCCC Fightback' and you must follow the advice, and post it here first for comments. You will need to re-write the example letters and make them read so they make sense. If you want, refer to your 'appeal' as an early holding response incorporating your appeal, and that this is your 'formal reply' to the LBA. We know UKCPS do not send compliant LBA letters so it will be easy for you to spot the flaws against the Practice Direction rules - but only you can draft it based on the LBCCC thread examples.

Don't do nothing. You will not prevail with a fairly basic appeal as a 'reply' to a LBA.