TNC Parking Final Demand

Gaffaj

Hi guys,

Very new here and would like a piece of advice.
I have received a letter from TNC Parking Services titled Final Demand for Payment.

The letter lists my reg number and has my companies address on it as it was a company car. It also has the area the offence took place but does not mention any date on when it was supposed to have taken place, it also mentions P4 Parking. The letter says I need to pay £140 (which includes a £40 admin charge) immediately and refers to Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012.

The area is somewhere I park regularly as my friends live there, but we always get a visitors parking permit that allows us to park for a set time. To my knowledge we have never exceeded one of these, and I have never seen anything on the windscreen.

This is also the first letter that I have received.

I have read through the other posts, but my question is do I contact TNC Parking or do I go to P4 Parking.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Redx

I would think its P4 Parking that you contact, so soft appeal it with them, and demand a popla code if they refuse to cancel it (if its too late they will probably laugh at you)

DR cannot take you to court , only the landowner or their legally appointed agent can do this

read the NEWBIES - READ THIS FIRST sticky thread as most or all of what you need to know is in there ( about the second sticky thread down)

Gaffaj

Thanks Redx, the thing is reading through the Newbie stuff I can see what to do if you have your Windscreen ticket or your original NTK, but this is neither of those. Can i ask them to quash it on that basis? Or can I ask them to send me copies of those and then ask them to reject it on a more legal type basis?

Redx

if you have had neither a windscreen pcn nor an NTK and are being chased by DR, I would complain to the BPA and DVLA myself

Gaffaj

Ok thanks again, I will do this today. One last question should I inform TNC that I am complaining to the BPA and DVLA or just let them find out in due course?

Coupon-mad

Gaffaj wrote: »

Thanks Redx, the thing is reading through the Newbie stuff I can see what to do if you have your Windscreen ticket or your original NTK, but this is neither of those. Can i ask them to quash it on that basis? Or can I ask them to send me copies of those and then ask them to reject it on a more legal type basis?

Hang on, that IS your 'Notice to Keeper' (to all intents & purposes) because it's the first letter sent to the keeper. This 'can' come from a debt collector - but it's not compliant which is good for you. And I think your appeal needs to be strong, not soft, or you will get it knocked back. And DO NOT APPEAL AS DRIVER!

Lots of small-fry PPCs use TNC to send the first (late, badly worded) letter to the keeper, we've seen this loads of times, there is no compliant NTK from little firms like P4Parking. It doesn't look as though P4Parking ever claimed this was a POFA 2012 ticket...not that you have seen a 'ticket'.

Similar issue being addressed about P4Parking & TNC here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4850769

and here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=86397

...easily to find cases like this from recent weeks by searching this forum - or that linked pepipoo forum - for the single keyword (one word) P4Parking.




Write an appeal as 'keeper' but using your company's address (do not name yourself as the driver!!). Send it to P4Parking and a copy to TNC:



To: P4Parking
cc: TNC

date:



Dear P4Parking,
Re PCN number xxxxxxxx - first Notification from TNC dated xx/xx/13
I am writing to challenge the above ticket as the keeper is entitled to do when the first Notice arrives. The letter from TNC was the first we have heard about your alleged ticket as a company, so I can only surmise that P4Parking made no attempt to serve a compliant 'Notice to Keeper' before passing the file to TNC. In addition, no driver has mentioned a PCN at all. In view of this, P4Parking has failed to establish 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 and TNC has failed to send a compliant Notice for this stage, if that was the intention.

Notwithstanding the above, the keeper is entitled to appeal (BPA Code of Practice paragraph 22.14 refers). My appeal as keeper is based on the three main assertions that:

- P4Parking has not established keeper liability as you have not followed POFA2012, and

- your parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss to P4Parking nor the landowner, and

- P4Parking is not the landowner. As a mere agent you have no standing/title/authority to form contracts with drivers nor to pursue this in the courts in your own name.

In every case where a motorist has raised these issues, POPLA have accepted the appeal in 2013. You are therefore fully aware that there is no prospect of your charge being upheld and I invite P4Parking to cancel the charge now. If you decide to continue to pursue this matter and reject this challenge then please supply a POPLA code. However please be aware that further points may be raised and when my appeal is upheld at POPLA and indeed the fact that the Notice from TNC fails to even identify the date of the parking event wastes my company's time and renders the letter a nullity.

In addition, both P4Parking and TNC you must take formal note that I reserve the right to claim my expenses from you and my time in challenging this parking charge at the court rate of £18 per hour from now onwards, since you have been made aware at this earliest opportunity of my winning POPLA points and your joint failures and procedural improprieties. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me beyond this point, you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

P4Parking and TNC - in view of the above, consider yourselves both on formal notice that you will be jointly and severally liable for my costs and for the tort and crime of harassment (further damages will apply) if you continue to pursue this matter.

P4Parking has no cause to proceed further with this matter. In addition please note that I have reported you to Steve Clark, Operations Manager at the BPA Ltd., and to David Dunford at the DVLA, for a serious breach of the BPA Code of Practice: namely ignoring the requirement to issue a Notice to Keeper and proceeding straight to a debt collection letter to a company/keeper. This is wholly misleading business practice. If you refuse me the opportunity to appeal I will forward your letter to the BPA and DVLA to add to their investigation - so I suggest you choose your response wisely.

TNC has no cause to continue to pursue this matter since I have made you aware of the fact that as keeper, the company is not legally liable. For TNC to continue to pursue me/the company now would be a breach of the OFT debt collector Guidelines and the CSA October 2013 Code of Practice. The wrong party is being harassed, so you must now cease and desist with all contact and return the file to your client, P4Parking. The driver has not been identified in this instance and I/we have no legal reason to help P4Parking in this regard even if a driver was known from an alleged undated event. If TNC continue to harass me with any further contact I will lodge an official complaint with the Office of Fair Trading and The Information Commissioner's Office, as well as the Credit Services Association.

I look forward to receiving your confirmation that the ticket has indeed been cancelled and that my/the company's data has been removed from your records, since neither TNC nor P4Parking have any lawful cause to store it. All replies will be forwarded to relevant authorities - including but not necessarily limited to those agencies already mentioned above. Your letters may also be used as evidence of harassment in a court claim against both P4Parking and TNC since you are on notice that if you now persist beyond this point, your actions will have become a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009).

Yours faithfully


YOUR NAME BUT C/O YOUR COMPANY'S ADDRESS




And email a complaint to the BPA and DVLA as well.

[EMAIL="steve.c@britishparking.co.uk"]steve.c@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL]

[EMAIL="david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Here's a case where someone has done exactly that:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...0&start=100

And after a lot of prodding, Steve Clark at the BPA forced P4Parking to allow the 'registered keeper' to appeal, since they'd never been given the chance. Remember you are the 'KEEPER' (the driver being unknown) and if possible you need to handle this for the 'company' - is that going to be possible? Is it your own company? Can you send it on your company headed notepaper for more clout?

You need to relax and realise we win 100% of POPLA appeals if this is not cancelled and it is taken to the next appeal stage.

However, you do need to deal with this robustly, as I believe P4Parking tried a few court claims last year which would be much more hassle than winning at POPLA!

4consumerrights

Another blinder of a letter CM - OP go with IT!

Gaffaj

Thanks Coupon-mad that is fantastic. I will read those post and action this as soon as possible.
I am a director of the company so I can handle this on behalf of the company no problems.

Thanks again for all the advice and going above and beyond. i'll keep you updated how I get on.