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Tory council leader believes ‘basic salary’ is 80k

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Comments

  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    globalds wrote: »
    This old straw man of council housing being subsidised is ludicrous.

    The business model has different priorities and is run over a much larger time frame, therefore any discounts on rental models such as we have now would not be a subsidy. It is the real costing and if enough of these houses are allowed to compete in the rental market they will bring market rates down to a point that they no longer appear as subsidised ..they create a new and as real market rate for rental.

    It would mean that most Landlords screwing the tenant and government out of cash today would have to reconsider there business model ..not unheard of.

    But don't defend one business model by calling another one that is a well tried and trusted and very profitable model as some kind of subsidy ..foolish talk from vested interests ..makes me sick


    If the government build a lot of houses and rented them on the open market, then yes the price of property and of rentals would fall.
    Just like it would if the government allowed the private sector to build sufficient property without levies and extra charges.

    However, if they let them out below the then market price, then it would be correct to say they were subsidised.
  • globalds
    globalds Posts: 9,431 Forumite
    CLAPTON wrote: »

    However, if they let them out below the then market price, then it would be correct to say they were subsidised.


    You are purposely not understanding the business model.

    affordable housing was an ambition during the construction and life of earning potential of the home.

    the low price was a part of the plan of the whole system.

    Unlike the present private rental system which is single faceted and unbelievably short term ..Lots of really good long term business models can have a whole range of social benefits and still be very profitable.

    I can assure you that however hard you argue your case ...Your greedy short term plans for taking cash off the government by denying normal people an affordable home (And that is exactly what buy to let landlords indirectly cause ) has not 1% the social benefit than a structured long term social housing program.
  • lvader
    lvader Posts: 2,579 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Isn't profit from buy to let taxed and therefore contributing to the housing benefit bill?
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    globalds wrote: »
    You are purposely not understanding the business model.

    affordable housing was an ambition during the construction and life of earning potential of the home.

    the low price was a part of the plan of the whole system.

    Unlike the present private rental system which is single faceted and unbelievably short term ..Lots of really good long term business models can have a whole range of social benefits and still be very profitable.

    I can assure you that however hard you argue your case ...Your greedy short term plans for taking cash off the government by denying normal people an affordable home (And that is exactly what buy to let landlords indirectly cause ) has not 1% the social benefit than a structured long term social housing program.


    social subsidised housing does enormous harm to its residents as it puts them in ghettos, limits their social and geographical mobility, limits their work options, creates a dependency culture, limits personal initiatives and discriminates against many of the poor and has many other faults too.
  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    social subsidised housing does enormous harm to its residents as it puts them in ghettos, limits their social and geographical mobility, limits their work options, creates a dependency culture, limits personal initiatives and discriminates against many of the poor and has many other faults too.

    That wasn't the case in the 60s and 70s and there is no reason why it has to be now.
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    ukcarper wrote: »
    That wasn't the case in the 60s and 70s and there is no reason why it has to be now.

    it was indeed the case in the 60 / 70 and is inevitable when things rather than people are 'subsidised'.
  • globalds
    globalds Posts: 9,431 Forumite
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    social subsidised housing does enormous harm to its residents as it puts them in ghettos, limits their social and geographical mobility, limits their work options, creates a dependency culture, limits personal initiatives and discriminates against many of the poor and has many other faults too.

    tumblr_mimfc9ZGDk1rfduvxo1_500.gif
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    social subsidised housing does enormous harm to its residents as it puts them in ghettos, limits their social and geographical mobility, limits their work options, creates a dependency culture, limits personal initiatives and discriminates against many of the poor and has many other faults too.

    Interesting that the original council housing was aspired to and individuals vetted before they were granted them and many paid full rent.

    The RTB and lack of sizeable build thereafter ended up with the concentration into the ghettos (homes to many) that you describe. The limit to social mobility is still there with HB. The dependency culture is still there. Shoving people in hostels and run down B&Bs discrimates and denegrates the poor.

    There will always be a need for supported accommodation. A disparate band of BTLs is a tactical response that has become de facto policy. It is an I'll thought out response and comes from running policy on empty.

    The cost will continue to escalate.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    it was indeed the case in the 60 / 70 and is inevitable when things rather than people are 'subsidised'.


    This reply shows how blinkered you are and that you have no idea about council estates in the 60s and 70s.
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Interesting that the original council housing was aspired to and individuals vetted before they were granted them and many paid full rent.

    The RTB and lack of sizeable build thereafter ended up with the concentration into the ghettos (homes to many) that you describe. The limit to social mobility is still there with HB. The dependency culture is still there. Shoving people in hostels and run down B&Bs discrimates and denegrates the poor.

    There will always be a need for supported accommodation. A disparate band of BTLs is a tactical response that has become de facto policy. It is an I'll thought out response and comes from running policy on empty.

    The cost will continue to escalate.

    the criteria for council housing were political decisions

    the RTB didn't reduce the number of houses

    B&B etc is caused by lack of sufficient properties plus an ill thought out commitment to spend money on housing people at a higher standard than was actually available

    the high costs are a result of
    - the shortage of housing
    - a mad system that provides better housing to people on benefits compared to people who work and pay their own way

    the costs can be reduced if the stupid rules about housing 'social' tenants were similar to normal people paying their own way.

    we need to reduce the impediments to building more properties
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