After being shouted at ;-)

Stroma

In Neath & Port Talbot hospital they have a marshal so you can park easily and as close to the hospital entrance as possible. He's employed by the hospital and no ppc is there

http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/863/page/39437

Boult22

Yeah - it was a postal one - pinged on the entry / exit cameras. Had a look around the car park, windy rainy night, didn't see the restrictions (not saying they weren't there). Overstayed by about 40 minutes. Notice to keeper has arrived. In the quandry as to drive (30 miles) to the car park to check it out properly (never been ton this town before) or just pay up or play the game.

Guess I'll need to sit down for a few hours and pick out the relevant bits from the 'sticky'.

Redx

no need to "pay up"

just learn from the sticky thread and other appeals etc on here, appeal to ppc, appeal to popla , win , job done

why pay when you can win and pay nothing ?

just do eht work but as if you are your father (for now) , you write, he sends

Coupon-mad

Boult22 wrote: »

Guess I'll need to sit down for a few hours and pick out the relevant bits from the 'sticky'.

A few hours? Just click on one or two of the dozen examples of 'first appeals' and choose one as your basic letter, and make it your own and that's round one over!

Boult22

Cheers folks. Been up to the site today for a quick look (60 mile round trip). There is a notice in place (not obvious on a dark rainy windy night when you're looking for a pay meter). Car park belongs to a Sports Direct branch so they can be CC'd in to any correspondence. Might also CC in St Helens council given that this park takes full advantage of the sign posts for the council car parks which I found further along the road.....

Eyes down, look in.....wish me luck.

**out of interest - given that the registered keeper was out of the country at the time of this 'offence' - would it be viable to claim that he / she did not know who was driving the vehicle at the time?

Coupon-mad

The keeper doesn't have to name the driver so no need to even mention it in the keeper's appeal. And you don't need luck - we win 100% of POPLA appeals as long as you follow our format as linked in the ''Newbies'' thread in the link 'How to win at POPLA'.

You'll win at POPLA like everyone else here, sometime in the Spring!

Boult22

Thanks Mr / Mrs Coupon Mad

Below is my proposed 'soft' appeal - I'll post it tomorrow - constructive criticism welcomed. It was part 'borrowed' off another poster on here.

I have received your invoice dated xxxx xxxxxx 20xx.
I am the registered keeper of vehicle reg. xxxxxx and wish to appeal the charge made in your invoice.

The driver, who was a first time visitor to xxxxxx that evening, merely followed the road signs for the municipal car park into xxxx Street, saw the 1st ‘Car Park’ sign and negotiated the convoluted entry way to the car park.

Due to the inclement weather on the evening in question the single sign, above the line of sight of the driver, on the post at the entry point (where most drivers are concentrating on the tight restricted entry road), was not seen or noticed by the driver.

It was a dark, windy and rainy evening and once the car was parked a brief search was made for a parking meter / ticket machine. None was found. The car park was empty and thinking nothing more of it the driver and their partner went into xxxxxx town on private business. This was not envisaged to take more than 40 minutes. However, they were a little waylaid but were not aware of how much by. On their return the car park was empty and so did not consider their presence to have caused any problem / loss.

I have registered my displeasure with Sports Direct (xxxxxx), who are serviced by this car park, and Sports Direct Head Office and I have sent them full details of the event, who I am expecting to contact you with instructions to cancel the charge.

In any event, as this is a free car park which was nowhere near full at the time, the charge being made does not reflect a true estimate of the loss incurred as a result of an accidental overstay.

If you reject this appeal, I will expect you to advise me of the basis for this charge, e.g. breach of contract?, trespass? and I expect you to supply me with a full breakdown of your loss caused by this event.
I will, of course, also expect you to provide a POPLA code.

Yours Sincerely,

Boult22

Also sent this to the retail company to whom the car par services and copied in their head office :-

I am writing to complain in the strongest possible terms about an excessive invoice that I have been issued with on your behalf by Xxx Limited.

It is as a result of an alleged parking infringement, in your ‘free’ car park on the evening of >date<. Contractual Parking Charge Notice Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Having dropped off the driver’s partner’s child at xxxxx (xxxxxx) for a party, the driver and his partner headed to xxxxxxx town centre for a quiet drink in the town centre. Not being familiar with xxxxx, they followed the sign posts in the town centre for ‘parking’ which led them on to xxxxxx Street. Through the dark / rain of that evening a ‘Car Park’ sign was spotted (photo 1 on the adjoining sheet), the car park entered and a parking space easily found (it was about 4.30 in the evening and the car park was all but empty). After a brief check, no pay meter was found nor terms and conditions. The driver and his partner, intending to be around 40 minutes to an hour were waylaid and returned about an hour and a half later and left the now empty car park.

Nothing more was thought of the issue until a ‘Contractual Parking Charge Notice’ arrived in the post addressed to me as the registered keeper of the vehicle in question.

There are a number of things that I regard upsetting and offensive regarding this notice :

• that £100.00 (reduced to £60.00) is regarded as a reasonable amount to charge for a 45 minute over stay in a ‘free’ car park (as is £60.00).
• any genuine pre estimate of loss can not reasonably amount to £60.00 or £100.00 in losses, damages or additional costs.
• The ‘offence’ can only be regarded as alleged as the only ‘evidence’, if that is what it is regarded as, are still photographs of the vehicle entering and exiting the car park, no evidence supplied of the vehicle actually being parked in any parking bay.

I find it quite perturbing that as a premier retail brand in the UK you participate in such aggressive tactics against your prospective customers (I have been an enthusiastic customer of xxxx in the past, though any future custom will need to be considered against how this is dealt with) OR encourage partners to engage in such blatant monetary ‘rip off’ tactics against your customers.

Is it reasonable from your perspective, that prospective customers are limited to one hour in which to park, browse, try on, select (several items – some of which are high value given the likely demographic of your customer), queue at the checkout, pay, return and exit the car park? It seems to me to be counteractive to limit the time in which your customers can spend money at your stores.

Is it reasonable to penalise those who inadvertently use this car park, especially when such use put no one else at any inconvenience?

Is it good practice to subject prospective customers to such abuse and therefore put at risk future business and good will?

>Photo of drivers approach< >secondary photo<
It is of note that the controlling body for these companies that engage in ‘car park management’ (I think the old generic term for these companies was “cowboy clampers” prior to this activity being declared unlawful), for example, the British Parking Association, request that any signage used is readable from within a vehicle to allow prospective users to make an informed decision as to whether they want to be drawn into any ‘contract’ prior to parking. Indeed, the validity of these ‘contracts’ was negated in the High Court – VCS v HMRC 2012.

In this instance, having visited this site my self earlier today, I concur with the driver’s claim that the (only) sign detailing proposed attempted charges (photo 3 - though this is also visible as a small white square on photo 2), on a dark rainy December night, was not immediately visible. Especially when negotiating the convoluted entry to this car park. Nor is it readable from within a car as much of the print is in a smaller less readable font.

>photo of sign<
I will also be writing to xxx to contest this invoice on several points in law and by way of POPLA though obviously it would be much easier if Sports Direct could do the honourable thing and get this matter closed with no further cost or distress.

I sincerely hope that you will be able influence / instruct xxx in this matter to get the invoice withdrawn / nullified and therefore, restore the faith and trust I have in your brand.

Redx

from a personal viewpoint, the above soft appeal is not really an appeal as such as you are showing mitigation and are asking them questions too, this allows them to carry on a dialogue with you instead of issuing a popla code

it also doesnt contain all the usual wording that we include in soft appeals either

EXAMPLE BELOW

1) The charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2) Your signage is inadequate and does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
3) You do not have authority or contract to issue these invoices

Umkomaas

Follow Redx's advice for your soft appeal to the PPC, in many respects no matter what you put to them it will be rejected. Redx's points will show them that you know something about how all this works.

You just need to hook that POPLA code, where you will win - but you must get away from 'telling your story'. This definitely does not and will not work at POPLA, in fact all appeals we've seen based on 'the story' (aka mitigation) have failed.

POPLA appeals need to be based around legal and technical issues, which you will find in the NEWBIES sticky 'How to win at POPLA' section.

However, your complaint to the retailer is probably best based on 'the story' as they are unlikely to understand or even be interested in the technical aspects, like 'genuine pre-estimate of loss', so all that sort of stuff should be left out, and I wouldn't bother sending them photos, I don't think they'll add anything to your complaint. You need to be targeting their business sense, their customer care/service obligations and the fact that these impact on their bottom line.

I hope you find the 'critique' helpful.