christmas surprise

Umkomaas

fuming17 wrote: »

Brilliant, i feel a lot better now i've got some quality backing. I'll knock a proper draft up tomorrow and fire it off to them. Should i email it or send it via post?

Email to ensure postal delays at this time of year don't affect things, but an 'insurance' snail version with free proof of posting from PO covers all eventualities.

Coupon-mad

fuming17 wrote: »

How would i find out if they own the car park or have planning permission to operate and hand fines out or have an agreement with the retailer?

You don't need to find the landowner but this is all covered in the 'Successful Complaints about PPCs' sticky thread, post #3 tells you how to complain at a Retail Park and who to, and post #2 has lots of successful complaints about CEL.

Hope this was the Co-op - as you will see from that sticky thread that the CEO of the Co-op often sends a voucher to customers who complain about CEL.

CEL do not use POFA2012 so there's never any keeper liability with their fake PCNs now, they gave up as they couldn't comply! Write as the keeper and when it gets to POPLA appeal (unless the retailer has cancelled it already) you'll win it as the keeper isn't liable and there's been no loss.

4consumerrights

As suspected re my earlier post - this is Civil Enforcement Limited who do not follow POFA - therefore the timing of the notice is irrelevant and they can only pursue the driver if known.




Letter to CEL:


Dear Sirs,

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle registration number xxxxx and confirm receipt of your parking charge notice xxxxxxx dated xxxxxx and deny any liability to pay this parking charge.

As you appear to be circumventing the requirements of POFA 2012, the registered keeper is not responsible for this charge, but the driver! I therefore suggest you take this matter up with that person. Please note I have no legal obligation to name the driver. [STRIKE]even if it's myself![/STRIKE]**

The amount claimed constitutes an unlawful penalty,as it is not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss you pretend you have and I further contend that you have no legal authority to pursue any charge.

Now as you are pursuing the wrong person, you are being put on notice that complaints are being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA and I suggest that you cancel this parking charge immediately to save further embarassment.

Notwithstanding the above, should you refuse to cancel this parking charge due to your failure to invoke keeper liability, then this letter must be accepted also as a formal appeal. In this case a POPLA code must be supplied as per the British Parking Association's Code of Practice: which as Civil Enforcement is an AOS member and as part of your KADOE contract with the DVLA must abide by this Code in order to gain keeper details.

Further points will be raised at POPLA for consideration. However note that should you either continue to pursue myself as keeper (with or without supplying a POPLA code), then I reserve the right to raise a claim for my costs and time against you at a court rate of £18 per hour. My costs are not exhaustive and will include stationery, stamps, travel expenses and any legal costs etc, and by continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these should I prevail.

In view of the above, I look forward to receiving your written confirmation by return that this parking charge has been cancelled.

Yours faithfully

squiggle name
Registered Keeper


Send the letter by snail mail - with free proof of postage and if there is an email also by them.

They will probably reply by getting you to try and name the driver - DO NOT DO SO - which means that further complaints can be forwarded to BPA and DVLA.

CEL are really trying it on by obtaining keeper details where they do not use keeper liability in their letters.



Edit: delayed posting - crossed with cm's

Note - this letter has been amended to reflect recent changes by CEL's responses - 18/02/14

**edited per comment below[STRIKE]even if it's myself![/STRIKE]**

Coupon-mad

''Please note I have no legal obligation to name the driver, even if it's myself!''


I have seen that before and would not use the bit in bold. I think the rk should maintain the moral high ground and not put that bit in.

4consumerrights

Yep - point taken CM - it is rather risque and perhaps slightly too condescending - have edited post.

fuming17

Just received a reply after sending a copy of 4consumerrights' draft and the ticket has been cancelled. Chuffed to bits, even more so that it didn't go to POPLA. The only downside is the Mrs, after reading the letter ripped it up into bits. I wanted to frame it, nevermind. Serious big thanks to the forum and the boys and gals who chipped in with advice. Top result!

Coupon-mad

That was a great result and not really surprising seeing at that appeal set out exactly why CEL were on a hiding to nothing and would have lost at POPLA which would have cost them money.

If everyone knew what we know about what to say in an appeal, most PPCs would die out. I will add the above as an 'example first appeal' in the Newbies FAQs thread.