Currys.co.uk not abiding by Distance Selling Regulations

bru88

londonTiger wrote: »

You are interpreting the guideline in a way that it favours you, currys will take the guideline in a way that it favours them. If you were to take this in a small claims court, judge would look at the spirit of the law not the letter because it's too vauge to enforce and it was drawn up long before the goods we buy today were invented like electronics whose value plummets when you take a knife to the wrapping.

They would probably argue that you had ample opportunity to test the software on their demo iPads.

So what. They could argue that as much as they want, but the fact is that the LAW (it is not a guideline) places no obligation upon the consumer to go to a store (or borrow one lol) and try it out. So any consumer can simply say "No, I didnt do that, and nor am I required to for you to comply with this LAW".

bru88

unholyangel wrote: »

Software is exempt from the right to cancel but only if unsealed by the consumer. However that's irrelevant here as OPs contract is for hardware.

But it hasnt been established that it is irrelevant here. Fact is that the contract was for a product which consists of hardware AND software.

If upon opening the outer box of the product (such as a computer) you found some sealed software in it (which sometimes still is the case) and you unsealed the packaging of those disks, then you have just forfeited your right to cancel THE WHOLE product under DSRs, because the software is part of 'THE PRODUCT' that you purchased (and thus the contract formed).

The grey area is whether activating & registering software that is already on the machine is covered under "breaking the seal on software". I cant see any other clause that Curry's could be relying upon when they specifically insist that USING a laptop or tablet exempts you from being able to cancel under DSR legislation.

EDIT: and just to add to that I will repeat what the store manager in my Currys store told me: "you can't return it because you have activated the software". [The software was inside the laptop, not independent disks]. That is a clear indication to me that Currys are relying upon 13d.

notken

bru88 has helpfully offered his opinion on a number of points. Currys not accepting opened goods was quoted to me in an email.

But their entire terms are, in the opinion of the CAB, effectively invalid since they state that even under the DSRs they must be returned "including all original packaging, be in as new condition and not used", none of which is stated in the DSRs.

In fact the OFT guidelines based on the DSRs specifically state that the retailer can request original packaging, but not insist on it, that the item can be tried as if in a store, and that the customer must take reasonable care (which is not the same as something being "as new"). Currys has very simply completely misunderstood or wilfully disregarded these guidelines, or invented conditions not stated in the law.

Just to reiterate, and I know I've said it a few times but people are still suggesting software as the get-out, at no point has Currys said that it is taking this stance because I purchased an iPad or computer, but that it doesn't accept returns of any used goods.

If you buy a computer mouse online, and have to cut open sealed plastic display packaging to try it out, you would still be able to return it. It seems pretty clear to me that Currys doesn't agree.

bru88

notken wrote: »

Just to reiterate, and I know I've said it a few times but people are still suggesting software as the get-out, at no point has Currys said that it is taking this stance because I purchased an iPad or computer, but that it doesn't accept returns of any used goods.

Currys sound all over the place with you. Really poor treatment.

Not accepting "ANY used goods" for DSR cancellation is clearly, in my opinion, contravening the law. That certainly is not stated anywhere in the DSRs as a valid reason to refuse cancellation of a purchase. But it so happens that (and I don't mean to bang on about it either) you havent got just "any" goods. You have one that indeed could possibly (I know you dont agree, but to my mind it is a grey area) fall under an exemption. So whether it will invalidate their case just for the fact that they gave the reason to you as "any goods" rather than "in this instance it is because you used the software", I don't know where you stand, I'm not a lawyer. What I mean is, say the authority interprets 13d of the DSRs to include activating software, maybe that wont even matter in your case because that isnt even the reason Currys stated to you for their refusal.

Anyway I hope you see this through, good luck with it, very interested to see what happens.

frugal_mike

bru88 wrote: »

I no longer have the piece of paper that they gave to me with my laptop, but their website says

"In accordance with distance selling regulations, unwanted products bought online can be returned open within 7 working days from the day after delivery. However, they must include all original packaging, be in as new condition and not used."

There's a lot wrong with their terms there. The 7 working day deadline only refers to when the cancellation must be sent, not returning the product.

What's more the DSR's very explicitly say the consuner has no obligation to return the items. They only need to make them available for collection by the retailer.

The rest of the term is invalid too. They can't insist on original packaging, as new condition of that the item is unused.

notken

bru88, I see what you're saying. I think that would be exceptionally hard to argue, because, as I think someone else mentioned many pages ago, almost anything you plug in these days will have code pre-installed to help run it. A washing machine will have firmware in an EPROM.

I'm sending off a recorded delivery letter tomorrow to Currys, requesting that they state exactly what part of the law allows them to deny the refund.

Hopefully the credit card charge-back form will be waiting for me when I get home. It's been 9 days since it was requested.

I'll keep this thread updated as I go.

notken

frugal_mike wrote: »

There's a lot wrong with their terms there. The 7 working day deadline only refers to when the cancellation must be sent, not returning the product.

What's more the DSR's very explicitly say the consuner has no obligation to return the items. They only need to make them available for collection by the retailer.

The rest of the term is invalid too. They can't insist on original packaging, as new condition of that the item is unused.

The CAB agrees, and is of the opinion that by suggesting this is part of the DSRs, Currys has fallen foul of the Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

frugal_mike

notken wrote: »

The CAB agrees, and is of the opinion that by suggesting this is part of the DSRs, Currys has fallen foul of the Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

I wouldn't be surprised. I haven't seen too many companies with compliant terms though, its all too common for them to say the goods must be unused.

SuperHan

frugal_mike wrote: »

That's exactly the point. They could have done reserve and collect much like I think Argos do. It sounds like just a misunderstanding over what the DSR's allow. They certainly aren't the only retailer to state returned items must be unused though.

Curry's do both reserve and collect and pay and collect.

Under Reserve and Collect, then yes, they are within their rights to demand the items unused.

Under Pay and Collect, as by Curry's own T&Cs the contract is formed at distance, the OP has an unconditional right to a refund, opened or not.

If Currys have issue with the opening of the iPad, they should still be refunding notken in full now, and then taking him to court to claim back any losses if they believe he has not taken adequate care.

I'm not surprised CAB were astounded by the behaviour of Currys. It is in this instance shocking in my opinion. There really is no ambiguity, and where they may have been ambiguity as you were collecting in store, Currys own terms eliminate this and clearly say the contract is formed when the goods are shipped!

As I've said before, as a usual Curry's advocate, I am genuinely angered by this situation!! They really are living up to their unfortunate reputation in this instance.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

frugal_mike wrote: »

What's more the DSR's very explicitly say the consuner has no obligation to return the items. They only need to make them available for collection by the retailer.

Could you demonstrate this?