State pensions should be slashed

DaveTheMus

Tancred wrote: »

There are lots of ways to cut government expenditure without needing to touch the state pension. The NHS is a huge bill for taxpayer - maybe that needs to be reformed. Why the obsession with the state pension?

who uses most of the NHS bill? Pensioners...I'm saying that people should take more responsibility for their own future and plan properly

Tancred

DaveTheMus wrote: »

I don't know if you're deliberately being obtuse so I'll try and expand on my point......when the state pension was introduced retirement age was 65, life expectancy was 66....we can take that information and assume that, on average, men would draw their pension for under 2 years before they died....the people that introduced the pension would have known this and being intelligent people would have tailored the pension to suit these circumstances. Had life expectancy been 86 instead of 66, I'm sure that they would have tailored the pension to suit those very different circumstances....I'm saying that pensions are unsustainable and the way it's done has to change because the circumstances have changed.

People don't wake up one day and retire without knowing long in advance that it's going to happen, I'm 31, I know I'll retire one day and I'm saving and investing for it already........if someone doesn't have the foresight to make provisions then more fool them.

OK, but the state pension age is already moving with life expectancy, so why are you banging on about this? And state pensions are certainly not unsustainable; the reason for the current mess is that the government does not means test people for the state pension and hands it out to anyone, including millionaires!!

DaveTheMus

Tancred wrote: »

OK, but the state pension age is already moving with life expectancy, so why are you banging on about this? And state pensions are certainly not unsustainable; the reason for the current mess is that the government does not means test people for the state pension and hands it out to anyone, including millionaires!!

That's what said, kind of, the way it's done has to change......I'm not suggesting that people who have no money should be left to starve, but, if you can look after yourself you should look after yourself

Tancred

DaveTheMus wrote: »

who uses most of the NHS bill? Pensioners...I'm saying that people should take more responsibility for their own future and plan properly

Plan? You can't plan for everything. And the poorest in society cannot, for sure. The NHS is mostly used by the old - yes of course it is - but you keep missing my point. My point is that those who can afford to pay should pay!! Age is not the issue. If a 40 year old who earns £350k a year as a bond dealer in the City needs a hip replacement he should bl**dy well pay for it himself, even if he chooses to have it done on the NHS. Likewise a retired 70 year old company director on a £100k a year pension and a £600k share portfolio. It's all about affordability!

The state pension is there to ensure that those without a decent private provision have at least basic pauper's pension to pay for the basics. The state pension bill would fall rapidly if the government reduced it on a taper for anyone with large private pensions, including lump sums etc.

Tancred

DaveTheMus wrote: »

That's what said, kind of, the way it's done has to change......I'm not suggesting that people who have no money should be left to starve, but, if you can look after yourself you should look after yourself

OK, well we agree on this then. But the difficulty lies in quantifying the level at which 'looking after yourself' is reasonably possible.
The problem is not the state pension, but the fact that no party is willing to re-examine the whole basis of the welfare state and the NHS. The idea of an NHS which is 'free at the point of delivery' is hopelessly outdated and unsuited to modern needs.

SALTY69

I have paid my "Stamp" as oldies like to call it since i was 15 i am now 61 i have paid into 2 pension schemes as well as looking forward to my OAP in 4 yrs why in gods name should i give up my Old age pension? because some lazy sods cant get off there !!!!!!.