Boss taken all my wages

marybelle01

stix62 wrote: »

Personally, I don't see the 'what for' or 'why' these circumstances arose as being part of the OP's query and i.m.o it is not relevant at all. It doesn't change what has happened.

'I'm not saying that to lecture her'...

With all due respect, that's exactly what you are doing.

OK - please explain how she gets her money back right now if it isn't relevant that she can be countersued for the debt that she owes, lose her childcare places and possibly her job over money she owes? The "what for" or "why" seem pretty relevant when you consider the possible consequences. Nobody is saying her employer is right to do what they did. But what is she going to do that gets her paid now, not a few months or so in the future, and without any consequences?

gwynlas

Being the cynical soul that I am I would presume that boss might not be nursery owner and needs to balance books for end of year or intends to get what they are owed before dismissing worker/withdrawing placement. In either case I think it is unlikely that person with child at nursery as been employed requisite 2 years or would pursue legal route. Best case scenario would be to try and negotiate quickly ,getting up to date with fees as essentially receiving interst free loan.

keyser666

marybelle01 wrote: »

I know that it is too late to point this out now, but for future reference (a) it is never wise to "miss a few payments" of anything because Christmas is coming, because all that leaves you is in debt that can last long after Christmas, and (b) don't rock the boat at work when you can't afford to.


You already know what the legal position is - the boss cannot make the deduction and has broken the law. Twice over, because this kind of deduction must be agreed in writing, and also no deduction, even if agreed, can reduce a wage to below the equivalent level of the national minimum wage unless it is a final salary payment. That is what the law says. But it is of limited help to her because whether she made a claim to a tribunal or to a county court for the wages, she must first attempt to resolve the situation with the employer (by submitting a grievance and/or a letter before action) both of which will possibly take three/four weeks before she can make a claim. And she wouldn't get an immediate court date in either case - the next month will have long gone before she sees a court or the money. And since she does owe the fees, she stands in risk of being countersued anyway - the debt from the fees is a fact, and even though the employer broke the law in recovering the money the way they did, that doesn't not change the fact that the money was owed.


I don't think there is an easy answer. I can think of at least one way in which the employer could easily "dismiss" her without even going to the trouble of dismissing her. If the employer withdraws the nursery places from the children, then she won't be in a position to work because there will be no childcare. And the employer can do that easily. Equally, assuming she does not have the required two years service, it wouldn't be difficult to find a reason to dismiss - unfortunately it never is all that hard.


Personally, I think that she may have to swallow her pride and go back to the employer and explain that she has nothing to live on, and try to negotiate part payments of her debt in return for receiving the balance of her wages. But that is just my opinion, and I don't think there is a "right answer" as to what she ought to do. In the real world, as I am sure you realise, what is right is not always the same thing as what is practicable. The employer has broken the law yes, but I don't see that helps your friend at all to know that if it cannot change the fact that she has no money now.


The other obvious comment to make is that your friend needs to both check that she is claiming any and all benefits she is entitled to, and/or look at ways in which she can reduce her outgoings. Owing a 1/12th of your wages over and above all your usual outgoings for anything is bound to make it a struggle to survive in any circumstances. But owing it for nursery fees which are presumably necessary for you to continue working is an enormous risk to be taking. The employer has, in my opinion, acted pretty badly in any case, taking the whole of the wage (legalities aside), but I also can't imagine that any nursery would have allowed her to miss payments and still kept the children in their places if she hadn't worked there - how would she have managed if she hadn't been allowed to miss the payments, and that seems to be an awful lot of missed payments when it amounts to 1/12th of your wage.


I'm not saying that to lecture her. I realise she probably doesn't earn a lot, and it'll be a struggle to make ends meet. I assume she is a single parent although you haven't said so, since there seems to be no other money coming in to the house from what you say. So all the more reason why she needs to make sure that she doesn't lose her job if she needs to work, and ensure she never ends up in this place again.


If she needs help checking her benefits or other income, then there's the benefits boards already mentioned. There are also some really useful boards on here about reducing living expenses, saving money and so on which she might find helpful.


I do hope she is able to get something resolved. It's a horrible thing to happen, especially at this time of year. And it is wrong. But as I said, being a wrong thing doesn't mean it can just get fixed that simply.

sound advice marybelle

mountainofdebt

keyser666 wrote: »

sound advice marybelle

Ditto.....

Riversong

Regardless of opinion the OP was looking for facts. They provided enough info in their first post to be guided to the relevant help. Why do all theads end up being so heated when, from the sounds of it, in this case the OP is in an emotive enough situation.

I hope you get sorted out OP.

mountainofdebt

Riversong wrote: »

Regardless of opinion the OP was looking for facts. They provided enough info in their first post to be guided to the relevant help. Why do all theads end up being so heated when, from the sounds of it, in this case the OP is in an emotive enough situation.

Because the advice that Marybelle is spot on - yes everyone is right about the employer not being able to just make deductions from the friend's wages but there is a larger picture to consider.

In fairness I don't think anyone has said that the friend should suck it up, but the fact that she needs to tread carefully in how she approaches her employer....and in fact has offered suggestions how to avoid a similar situation happening again

marybelle01

Riversong wrote: »

Regardless of opinion the OP was looking for facts. They provided enough info in their first post to be guided to the relevant help. Why do all theads end up being so heated when, from the sounds of it, in this case the OP is in an emotive enough situation.

I hope you get sorted out OP.

Because facts without interpretation are useless.


Would it be "right" to tell someone that they can take their employer to the county court or an employment tribunal (the bare fact) without pointing out what the timescales and risks to that strategy would be? Perhaps you think so. I do not.


Given a fuller range of advice, which includes alternatives and risks, the decision is the OP's as to what they do.


Perhaps you should read your own signature - "You may find that having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting. This is not logical, but is often true." The OP's friend may want their wages. They may need their wages. But getting them may not be quite so pleasing a thing. With apologies to Mr Spock, "This is not legal, but it is often true".