Boss taken all my wages

LittleVoice

marybelle01 wrote: »

But neither of those is an explanation of why, they are explanations of what. The normal expectation, whether you work there or not, is that if you send your children to nursery and there are fees to be paid, then you pay the fees. The OP's friend has not paid them. The why is therefore quite relevant - there may be other help available if we knew why.

Do you mean a referral to the benefits board?

mountainofdebt

marybelle01 wrote: »

But neither of those is an explanation of why, they are explanations of what. The normal expectation, whether you work there or not, is that if you send your children to nursery and there are fees to be paid, then you pay the fees. The OP's friend has not paid them. The why is therefore quite relevant - there may be other help available if we knew why.

thank you - I'm glad to see someone can see what I was getting at!

Yes I can read , so I know that the OP's friend is in debt to the nursery for her children's fees....but how as this debt been allowed to build up to the point that the employer feels the need to 'take' all the friend's salary in payment.

AP007

LittleVoice wrote: »

See post #1 and signpost to that in post #5.

Yes so why were they not paying the fees? The boss still can not just take the salary payment instead without the persons agreement.

swanseastilo_2

The reason she is behind. Is because christmas was coming she missed a few payments but the boss said that was ok. But because she made a compalint about another member of staff. That seems friendly with the boss. This happened. I can only take her word for it what she has said.

thanks for the replys guy.

sorry for bad spelling these touch screens are a pain.

marybelle01

swanseastilo wrote: »

The reason she is behind. Is because christmas was coming she missed a few payments but the boss said that was ok. But because she made a compalint about another member of staff. That seems friendly with the boss. This happened. I can only take her word for it what she has said.

thanks for the replys guy.

sorry for bad spelling these touch screens are a pain.

I know that it is too late to point this out now, but for future reference (a) it is never wise to "miss a few payments" of anything because Christmas is coming, because all that leaves you is in debt that can last long after Christmas, and (b) don't rock the boat at work when you can't afford to.


You already know what the legal position is - the boss cannot make the deduction and has broken the law. Twice over, because this kind of deduction must be agreed in writing, and also no deduction, even if agreed, can reduce a wage to below the equivalent level of the national minimum wage unless it is a final salary payment. That is what the law says. But it is of limited help to her because whether she made a claim to a tribunal or to a county court for the wages, she must first attempt to resolve the situation with the employer (by submitting a grievance and/or a letter before action) both of which will possibly take three/four weeks before she can make a claim. And she wouldn't get an immediate court date in either case - the next month will have long gone before she sees a court or the money. And since she does owe the fees, she stands in risk of being countersued anyway - the debt from the fees is a fact, and even though the employer broke the law in recovering the money the way they did, that doesn't not change the fact that the money was owed.


I don't think there is an easy answer. I can think of at least one way in which the employer could easily "dismiss" her without even going to the trouble of dismissing her. If the employer withdraws the nursery places from the children, then she won't be in a position to work because there will be no childcare. And the employer can do that easily. Equally, assuming she does not have the required two years service, it wouldn't be difficult to find a reason to dismiss - unfortunately it never is all that hard.


Personally, I think that she may have to swallow her pride and go back to the employer and explain that she has nothing to live on, and try to negotiate part payments of her debt in return for receiving the balance of her wages. But that is just my opinion, and I don't think there is a "right answer" as to what she ought to do. In the real world, as I am sure you realise, what is right is not always the same thing as what is practicable. The employer has broken the law yes, but I don't see that helps your friend at all to know that if it cannot change the fact that she has no money now.


The other obvious comment to make is that your friend needs to both check that she is claiming any and all benefits she is entitled to, and/or look at ways in which she can reduce her outgoings. Owing a 1/12th of your wages over and above all your usual outgoings for anything is bound to make it a struggle to survive in any circumstances. But owing it for nursery fees which are presumably necessary for you to continue working is an enormous risk to be taking. The employer has, in my opinion, acted pretty badly in any case, taking the whole of the wage (legalities aside), but I also can't imagine that any nursery would have allowed her to miss payments and still kept the children in their places if she hadn't worked there - how would she have managed if she hadn't been allowed to miss the payments, and that seems to be an awful lot of missed payments when it amounts to 1/12th of your wage.


I'm not saying that to lecture her. I realise she probably doesn't earn a lot, and it'll be a struggle to make ends meet. I assume she is a single parent although you haven't said so, since there seems to be no other money coming in to the house from what you say. So all the more reason why she needs to make sure that she doesn't lose her job if she needs to work, and ensure she never ends up in this place again.


If she needs help checking her benefits or other income, then there's the benefits boards already mentioned. There are also some really useful boards on here about reducing living expenses, saving money and so on which she might find helpful.


I do hope she is able to get something resolved. It's a horrible thing to happen, especially at this time of year. And it is wrong. But as I said, being a wrong thing doesn't mean it can just get fixed that simply.

t0rt0ise

marybelle01 wrote: »

But neither of those is an explanation of why, they are explanations of what. The normal expectation, whether you work there or not, is that if you send your children to nursery and there are fees to be paid, then you pay the fees. The OP's friend has not paid them. The why is therefore quite relevant - there may be other help available if we knew why.

I wonder if you're just being nosey! They didn't ask how to stop getting into debt. They asked about the employer taking money from wages to pay the debt. Answer the question if you know the answer, and quit with the social worker bit!

zaax

Deductions can't take pay below the minimum wage.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/payroll/pay-and-deductions/nmw.htm#8

stix62

marybelle01 wrote: »

Sorry you didn't like the question asked, but it is a legitimate question in the circumstances. Because your advice is a bit off too. .........

Sorry if my 'advice' was a bit off but it was taken from Gov.uk and regardless of 2 weeks, 4 weeks , whatever, the point I was making was ' I don't do contracts...' is not acceptable and there is something that can be done about it,,, possibly. (Thank-you for the additional info)

Personally, I don't see the 'what for' or 'why' these circumstances arose as being part of the OP's query and i.m.o it is not relevant at all. It doesn't change what has happened.

'I'm not saying that to lecture her'...

With all due respect, that's exactly what you are doing.

Pricivius

It is rarely the case that the cold, hard facts of the law are of much use. "It is likely that the employer has acted unlawfully" gets you little further than being able to stamp your feet and wave your arms in the air and feel hard done by. Your options in dealing with it are many and they all depend on the circumstances.

For example, if OP's friend got into arrears because her partner died and she had a huge funeral bill to pay, you could expect the employer to hopefully be sympathetic upon explanation. However, if the OP's friend did not pay the bill for childcare because she spent the money on a furby, a PS4, a bike, a box of crackers and a big turkey, I would suggest there would be alot less sympathy forthcoming from the employer.

It turns out the OP's friend spent the childcare fees on christmas and then complained about a colleague which annoyed the employer. It's a difficult position to be in. Employer should not have done what they did, but OP's friend did not help themself to keep on the good side of a boss who was showing them leniency with the fees. I suggest having a chat and seeing what agreement can be reached.

marybelle01

t0rt0ise wrote: »

I wonder if you're just being nosey! They didn't ask how to stop getting into debt. They asked about the employer taking money from wages to pay the debt. Answer the question if you know the answer, and quit with the social worker bit!

(a) No it is not being nosey. I answered the question, for what good it will do the OP's friend, and as Pricivius has pointed out, there are things that cause debt that might elicit a much more sympathetic response from an employer than others, which can suggest a strategy.


(b) It is b***dy difficult NOT to do the "social worker bit" since I am a fully qualified social worker!!!


So what was your useful contribution to the thread - other than having a go at people who are trying to help?