Banks charge £12

PaulDesmond

This may be a valid point. I have heard here that credit card companies only need to show that a default letter was sent out but how can they do that?


A computer at the end of a month will check your limit and subtract your balance if the result is negative you are over your limit. The computer will automatically do the following
Add £12 for over limit fee. OK
Log the event OK
Add to your notes that a letter has been sent out. WRONG
The letter at that moment in time has not actually been sent. This requires a printer with ink and paper in it to produce the letter and the same for the envelope.
A kid on government work training scheme would have o put the letter into an envelope.
Seal the envelope and
Put it in the mail sack.
Unlike the automated computer there is a human process involved where things can go wrong, also what about the computer glitches, power outages and computer crashes.
Can this be legally binding in a court of law? I have not received the any (4) default letters from RBS.
I have been charged £12 for being over my limit by a computer when I was not.

Buzby

So you don't believe anyone has invented a process that can print a preformed message, mail merge it, fold and insert to a window envelope and despatch?

Heck, I've seen this automated process exist since 1973. (It was made by Pitney Bowes) No human intervention - job placement or otherwise was required.

Since there is no requirement for a signed receipt, and all the sender need state it is their honest belief that due notice was provided, it becomes fact in any court of law UNLESS you can prove otherwise.

Proving a negative, of course, is extremely difficult.

If you provided every scrap of paper to the court showing each communication through the years, with the exception of these letters of default - you might be in with a shout, but not otherwise.

As to your last point - since there is a conflict, and assuming your facts and interpretation are correct, what was their response to your pointing out their error?

PaulDesmond

So what you are saying is that they do not have to send a letter of default only that a computer added an up coming event to DEFINATLY HAPPEN.


How does the computer get the document into the royal mail sorting office in south end on sea.


The law says that they have to send these letters. not that the probability was that one was sent.

grumbler

Can I repeat my question?

grumbler wrote: »

So, what's the problem? The default in your file(s) or the charges that the OP was about?

If it's the latter, what law do you keep referring to when saying "the law says"?

ERICS_MUM

PaulDesmond wrote: »

S


How does the computer get the document into the royal mail sorting office in south end on sea.


.

Most of the work is done by the credit card centre (as with most credit card co's). The letters are sorted into postcode order, printed, then the machines automatically fold the letter, push it into the envelope and seal it. The letters are bundled up into groups of postcodes (as required by Royal Mail). The bundles are either collected by RM or delivered to their sorting office. As they are pre-sorted, they drop straight into the relevant postman's "rounds" - nobody at the RM has to do any manual sorting.

The volume of mail sent out by any credit card company is huge and could not possibly be handled by school leavers - charges would be sky high if this level of manual intervention were needed.

MPH80

ERICS_MUM wrote: »

Most of the work is done by the credit card centre (as with most credit card co's). The letters are sorted into postcode order, printed, then the machines automatically fold the letter, push it into the envelope and seal it. The letters are bundled up into groups of postcodes (as required by Royal Mail). The bundles are either collected by RM or delivered to their sorting office. As they are pre-sorted, they drop straight into the relevant postman's "rounds" - nobody at the RM has to do any manual sorting.

The volume of mail sent out by any credit card company is huge and could not possibly be handled by school leavers - charges would be sky high if this level of manual intervention were needed.

For more (high level) details ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mailsort

jmhgibson123

i was told by my bank they only send out the first letter then they dont bother again, as its in the t&c's they just tell me know via online statement when they will be taking any late charges, i did query this with them and as goodwill they refunded one of my over limit charges but told me they do not have to send a letter every time

custardy

ERICS_MUM wrote: »

Most of the work is done by the credit card centre (as with most credit card co's). The letters are sorted into postcode order, printed, then the machines automatically fold the letter, push it into the envelope and seal it. The letters are bundled up into groups of postcodes (as required by Royal Mail). The bundles are either collected by RM or delivered to their sorting office. As they are pre-sorted, they drop straight into the relevant postman's "rounds" - nobody at the RM has to do any manual sorting.

The volume of mail sent out by any credit card company is huge and could not possibly be handled by school leavers - charges would be sky high if this level of manual intervention were needed.

There are various levels of presorting
The one you describe is walk sorting. It still requires sorting at walk level
Most companies dont sort that far and simply go to post code sector

ERICS_MUM

custardy wrote: »

There are various levels of presorting
The one you describe is walk sorting. It still requires sorting at walk level
Most companies dont sort that far and simply go to post code sector

fair comment, but i was just dispelling the impression in an earlier post that banks have a person stood at the printer clutching an envelope !

Buzby

PaulDesmond wrote: »

So what you are saying is that they do not have to send a letter of default only that a computer added an up coming event to DEFINATLY HAPPEN.

How does the computer get the document into the royal mail sorting office in south end on sea.

The law says that they have to send these letters. not that the probability was that one was sent.

We've laid to rest your assertion that some youth-opportunities person saw your letter and decided to suppress it for some unknown reason.

You don't appear to understand what I am saying (if your first para is anything to go by). What I have said is the the Act states the customer be given due notice of their CCA Default, this requires a letter. The firm has processes in place to advise their debtors of their transgressions and will prove to the satisfaction of any court that in all probability they had done in your case.

As to how RM get the mail into their Sorting Office, the last time I was there it was by RM van, which called daily at 1730 to collect the outbound mail sacks from the mail room. These days it will be collected by whatever third party promised to do it for the lowest tender. See the logo on any mails you do receive from them, ultimately the final delivery is still by RM and satisfies the court that it has been handled professionally.

There is little point in trying to prove they did not send you a default letter - you cannot. It is far better to concentrate on the reasons behind the cause of the default and ensure they do not happen again.