Debt collectors chasing debts already paid!! HELP!!!

EmJ86

Hi all,

I have a couple of issues which I really need some advice on, please bear with me as this post is a little lengthy...

Firstly, I had a final bill that needed paying to British Gas, before I received a final reminder from them I was receiving text messages from a company called Wescot. At the time I didn't know what they wanted until I received a letter from them saying they were collecting a debt from British Gas. I ignored said letter until I heard from British Gas, which I received two days later, but their letter said they would send me to Wescot if it wasn't paid, NOT that they had sent me to Wescot.

So I paid the debt to British Gas and have a receipt to show I've paid for it, yet I received a Final Notice from Wescot yesterday (28/12/13) stating the debt was still outstanding and that they would take further action if it wasn't paid.

I have proof I've paid British Gas, so what should I do about Wescot? Continue to ignore them, or tell them I've paid British Gas?



Second issue I have is there's a company called Allied International that have been ringing my work constantly (three times a day!!) for the past two weeks. I am currently on maternity leave from my job, and where I work is a very small bridal boutique so it's very frustrating for my colleagues to keep having to tell them I'm on maternity and to stop calling my work number.

I don't know what it is they're ringing about, but I have a feeling (from reading old posts and Googling them) that it's to do with a debt I had with NatWest. I had paid said debt to APEX already back in July, I agreed a settlement amount with them that they said would show as being partially satisfied on my credit score. Upon being told someone was ringing for me at my place of work, I decided to check my credit score, which says I still have a balance of £159 outstanding and that the debt hasn't been satisfied!!:mad:

I don't know what I should do about this, I threw out all the letters I had from APEX at the beginning of Dec as I had assumed it had all been sorted back in July!

I do have a bank statement that shows I paid APEX the settlement figure though, I have enough defaults on my credit score as it is and thought I had at least sorted this one out!


Can anyone give me some advice as to what I should do about both debt collectors? I have dealt with debt collectors before and know a lot of the letters you get sent are scare tactics, but I really want to try and get these sorted out. It's stress I really don't need when I'm due to have a baby any day now....!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sue-UU

Hi Em,

To my mind the most natural step to take now is most certainly to get in touch with both companies and state the obvious. If necessary, get a copy of the relative proof to say payments have been made. It shouldn't be long before all is sorted and you can get it off your mind.

You have a little one on the way, so get rid of all the stress and look ahead to LO's arrival with a clear conscience.

All very best wishes, Sue x

FireWyrm

EmJ86 wrote: »

Hi all,

I have a couple of issues which I really need some advice on, please bear with me as this post is a little lengthy...

Ok, one step at a time then.

EmJ86 wrote: »

Firstly, I had a final bill that needed paying to British Gas, before I received a final reminder from them I was receiving text messages from a company called Wescot. At the time I didn't know what they wanted until I received a letter from them saying they were collecting a debt from British Gas. I ignored said letter until I heard from British Gas, which I received two days later, but their letter said they would send me to Wescot if it wasn't paid, NOT that they had sent me to Wescot.

So I paid the debt to British Gas and have a receipt to show I've paid for it, yet I received a Final Notice from Wescot yesterday (28/12/13) stating the debt was still outstanding and that they would take further action if it wasn't paid.

I have proof I've paid British Gas, so what should I do about Wescot? Continue to ignore them, or tell them I've paid British Gas?

Write to their contact address stating the reference number of the issue and tell them that you have paid and to go back to British Gas. You consider the matter closed. End of story. Ignore them and if they dont stop, you sent them a letter stating 'harassment' and that you intend to refer them to the FSA if they dont get lost. That's a simple issue.

EmJ86 wrote: »

Second issue I have is there's a company called Allied International that have been ringing my work constantly (three times a day!!)

Not acceptable and actually illegal. You can write to them stating this fact and they'll just ignore you, so I dont think you'll get much mileage out of it. However, you can write to them if you like, nothing stopping you and tell them the same as above...harassment and you are reporting them to the FSA for unfair treatment etc.

EmJ86 wrote: »

I don't know what it is they're ringing about, but I have a feeling (from reading old posts and Googling them) that it's to do with a debt I had with NatWest. I had paid said debt to APEX already back in July,

OK. If you are not sure what this relates to, the burden of PROOF is on them. You need to write to them and request proof of the debt and how it applies to you. This should be far more than a silly print out, it should state the original creditor, how much was paid, what is outstanding etc. It's called a 'prove it' letter and they must provide it to you. However, read on below....

EmJ86 wrote: »

I agreed a settlement amount with them that they said would show as being partially satisfied on my credit score.

You didnt agree what you thought you had agreed unfortuantely. You have only PARTIALLY settled this account which means that the original debt collector could (and probably has from the messages you are getting) sold this onwards again and the balance is what is being pursued.

EmJ86 wrote: »

Upon being told someone was ringing for me at my place of work, I decided to check my credit score, which says I still have a balance of £159 outstanding and that the debt hasn't been satisfied!!:mad:

No, it wont until that final amount is satisfied. However, it is crucial you find out whether this debt collector is chasing that debt, or another one you havnt mentioned. You need a prove-it letter first. There well established protocols for dealing with these issues, but you need to know for sure which debt you are dealing with. The creditor must provide the proof in a satisfactory form or you can tell them to stick it on the basis that it doesnt apply to you. It has been known for some debt collectors to try and pin a debt on a similarly named individual.

EmJ86 wrote: »

I don't know what I should do about this, I threw out all the letters I had from APEX at the beginning of Dec as I had assumed it had all been sorted back in July!

Never, ever throw out correspondence, especially debt related until at least 6 years has passed since it was last looked at. This is a classic demonstration of why you should keep all correspondence on these matters safely tucked away. However, the burden of proof is on them and so, luckily, you can still move forwards with this.

EmJ86 wrote: »

I do have a bank statement that shows I paid APEX the settlement figure though, I have enough defaults on my credit score as it is and thought I had at least sorted this one out!

Write to APEX and ask for a statement of account pertaining to your case. They should have it available. You may have to pay a nominal fee for the service. Ring and check in the first instance, but they ought to be able to trace the case and advise accordingly.

EmJ86 wrote: »

Can anyone give me some advice as to what I should do about both debt collectors? I have dealt with debt collectors before and know a lot of the letters you get sent are scare tactics, but I really want to try and get these sorted out. It's stress I really don't need when I'm due to have a baby any day now....!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

As above. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

EmJ86

Hi FireWyrm,

Thanks so much for the detailed reply.

Wescot should be pretty easy to deal with in that instance then, I had a feeling that's what I should do but didn't know if a letter or a phone call would be better (I should know by now a letter is always better... :doh:)

FireWyrm wrote: »

Not acceptable and actually illegal. You can write to them stating this fact and they'll just ignore you, so I dont think you'll get much mileage out of it. However, you can write to them if you like, nothing stopping you and tell them the same as above...harassment and you are reporting them to the FSA for unfair treatment etc.

Can I still do this if they are chasing the right person for the right debt? I don't know how they would've got hold of my work number as I don't give that out to anyone, also Wescot have my mobile number which NatWest and APEX also have/had and know one has tried to contact me on that in regards to this debt.

FireWyrm wrote: »

You didnt agree what you thought you had agreed unfortuantely. You have only PARTIALLY settled this account which means that the original debt collector could (and probably has from the messages you are getting) sold this onwards again and the balance is what is being pursued.

Will find out from Allied International via a prove-it letter then if it is me their after, they could have been sending letters to my old address (which NatWest have actually been doing and I didn't find out until last week), so a prove-it letter would obviously have to have my current correspondent address on it(?)

So if Allied International are ringing up about the remainder of this debt and APEX haven't done what they said would be done then what needs to be done? I can't afford to pay anymore to anyone as that's why I thought I had agreed a settlement amount with APEX, my husband said to just pay it to get them off my back but I don't want to pay it unless I really have to (either he's right and I'm being a stubborn mule or I'm right and he's suggesting the easy option)...

FireWyrm wrote: »

It has been known for some debt collectors to try and pin a debt on a similarly named individual.

I have actually had a few cases where this has happened, they asked if I ever lived in Ireland...to which I responded no and that the name they were asking for was my married name, person they were after was a MISS not a MRS.

FireWyrm wrote: »

Never, ever throw out correspondence, especially debt related until at least 6 years has passed since it was last looked at. This is a classic demonstration of why you should keep all correspondence on these matters safely tucked away. However, the burden of proof is on them and so, luckily, you can still move forwards with this.

Write to APEX and ask for a statement of account pertaining to your case. They should have it available. You may have to pay a nominal fee for the service. Ring and check in the first instance, but they ought to be able to trace the case and advise accordingly.

Everyone keeps telling me I should've kept the letters but being naive I assumed it had all been sorted. I was told by the adviser from APEX on the phone when I rung up to pay the agreed settlement amount that it would show as partially settled on my credit score and that it would go back to NatWest as being cleared. (If that makes sense...) If that wasn't the case then why was I told that's what would happen??

In regards to other debt collectors the only other two I know of and are being dealt with is Moorcroft (for my husbands old HSBC student account) and LINK Financial Services (for a Barclaycard Credit Card). I also have an agreement put in place for a NatWest Credit Card but that is being paid to NatWest and not a debt collector. I am case and point when it comes to bad debts but I have been dealing with them with no problems up until now!

EmJ86

Bump! Please help!!

FireWyrm

OK, one step at a time again....here we go.

EmJ86 wrote: »

Hi FireWyrm,

Thanks so much for the detailed reply.

Wescot should be pretty easy to deal with in that instance then, I had a feeling that's what I should do but didn't know if a letter or a phone call would be better (I should know by now a letter is always better... :doh:)

Letter, every time. Debt management is one of those tricky 'anomaly law' type things which still hinges largely on the written word. Although we have all moved to emails and telephone calls, contract law hasnt and so in every case, when in doubt, write (snail mail) to them keeping a copy and the proof of postage. I cannot stress how much trouble it could save you in the long run despite being just a teeny bit inconvenient.

EmJ86 wrote: »

Can I still do this if they are chasing the right person for the right debt? I don't know how they would've got hold of my work number as I don't give that out to anyone, also Wescot have my mobile number which NatWest and APEX also have/had and know one has tried to contact me on that in regards to this debt.

Yes. The law says that if you INSTRUCT them in WRITING to stop contacting you at a particular number, then they MUST do so or it is HARRASSMENT. Notice the capitals...this is the LAW, not just some pie in the sky request and they must comply. You'll have to look up the relevant passages, but basically, if you explicitly forbid them to use a number and then state categorically that you WILL report them to FSA, they should comply. Its the only way. They will give you some waffle about being allowed to contact you at a public number, whereupon you hit them with the UNFAIR PURSUIT OF A DEBTOR clause which states that they must not prejudice you at your place of work or embarrass you etc...not to mention being a breach of DPA since even calling the number and and announcing who they are tells anyone and everyone what they want from you. A strongly worded letter TELLING them to stop calling this particular number coupled with the threat of further CRIMINAL proceedings for harassment ought to do it. The difference here is that 'harassment' is criminal whilst their complaint is merely civil and of lessor value.

EmJ86 wrote: »

Will find out from Allied International via a prove-it letter then if it is me their after, they could have been sending letters to my old address (which NatWest have actually been doing and I didn't find out until last week), so a prove-it letter would obviously have to have my current correspondent address on it(?)

Prove it letter in all cases to start with. Like I said, channels. Do not deviate or get creative. Just follow the law and you cant go wrong. They cant eat you.

EmJ86 wrote: »

So if Allied International are ringing up about the remainder of this debt and APEX haven't done what they said would be done then what needs to be done?

Unfortunately, you only agreed to a partial settlement. You didnt understand what that meant and the law doesnt care. You should have researched or asked is what it will conclude. If the debt is yours and they can prove it (with actual and real proof) then you must pay the remainder in order to get a 'settlement' marker. If you do not, it isnt settled. They are allowed to do this. When you were negotiating with the original creditor, you should have insisted upon a FULL AND FINAL settlement which is entirely different. You were, to some extent, duped, but that is the way the cookie crumbles.

EmJ86 wrote: »

I can't afford to pay anymore to anyone as that's why I thought I had agreed a settlement amount with APEX, my husband said to just pay it to get them off my back but I don't want to pay it unless I really have to (either he's right and I'm being a stubborn mule or I'm right and he's suggesting the easy option)...

I'm afraid he's right. Pay it. It will get them off your back and until you do, someone will always be after you. The only way to get out of this is to go radio silent and incommunicado for 6 years from the last payment, and then, it's statute barred. However, be warned, intentional evasion is not allowed. You are protected in law if a creditor pops up out of the blue, not if you intentionally avoid them.

EmJ86 wrote: »

I have actually had a few cases where this has happened, they asked if I ever lived in Ireland...to which I responded no and that the name they were asking for was my married name, person they were after was a MISS not a MRS.

Prove it then...letter. All correspondence in writing and proof maintained in a separate file just in case you need to produce a paper trail down the line. Sometimes, debts are sold over and over again and it is easy to end up paying multiple times.

EmJ86 wrote: »

Everyone keeps telling me I should've kept the letters but being naive I assumed it had all been sorted. I was told by the adviser from APEX on the phone when I rung up to pay the agreed settlement amount that it would show as partially settled on my credit score and that it would go back to NatWest as being cleared. (If that makes sense...) If that wasn't the case then why was I told that's what would happen??

It WAS cleared as far as they were concerned. It was up to you to understand the clause and what it meant for you. As I said, you should have insisted on a full and final settlement (those exact words) and then you wouldnt be in this mess....but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Deal with the problem now.

EmJ86 wrote: »

In regards to other debt collectors the only other two I know of and are being dealt with is Moorcroft (for my husbands old HSBC student account) and LINK Financial Services (for a Barclaycard Credit Card). I also have an agreement put in place for a NatWest Credit Card but that is being paid to NatWest and not a debt collector. I am case and point when it comes to bad debts but I have been dealing with them with no problems up until now!

Keep all correspondence. If you go down the same settlement route, you'll know better what you are doing this time.

P.S explicitly require that all further correspondence is in writing from now on, you will not entertain any communication via telephone or other means. Dont request, tell, you are a debtor, not their slave and are entitled to due consideration under the law. Dont what ever you do, sign letters with your signature since it has been known for that to magically appear on credit agreements. A letter with your name and address will be sufficient. You need to be polite but firm.

FireWyrm

EmJ86 wrote: »

Bump! Please help!!

See above...I was writing it :rotfl:

FireWyrm

More information on unfair collection tactics :

http://www.stepchange.org/Debtinformationandadvice/Whatyourcreditorscando/Yourrights.aspx

Specifically...this applies to you :

acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor, either
deliberately or through lack of care

I'm also pretty sure you can find some material in here to deal with them :

http://oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/consultations/oft664con.pdf

Harassment : http://www.payplan.com/debt-library/bailiffs-harassment.php

I would go down the 'dont call me at work on this number' and any further instances will result in a complaint to the OFT and FSA for harassment under the law above etc...

EmJ86

FireWyrm wrote: »

Yes. The law says that if you INSTRUCT them in WRITING to stop contacting you at a particular number, then they MUST do so or it is HARRASSMENT. Notice the capitals...this is the LAW, not just some pie in the sky request and they must comply. You'll have to look up the relevant passages, but basically, if you explicitly forbid them to use a number and then state categorically that you WILL report them to FSA, they should comply. Its the only way. They will give you some waffle about being allowed to contact you at a public number, whereupon you hit them with the UNFAIR PURSUIT OF A DEBTOR clause which states that they must not prejudice you at your place of work or embarrass you etc...not to mention being a breach of DPA since even calling the number and and announcing who they are tells anyone and everyone what they want from you. A strongly worded letter TELLING them to stop calling this particular number coupled with the threat of further CRIMINAL proceedings for harassment ought to do it. The difference here is that 'harassment' is criminal whilst their complaint is merely civil and of lessor value.

Will do this and send out asap.

FireWyrm wrote: »

Unfortunately, you only agreed to a partial settlement. You didnt understand what that meant and the law doesnt care. You should have researched or asked is what it will conclude. If the debt is yours and they can prove it (with actual and real proof) then you must pay the remainder in order to get a 'settlement' marker. If you do not, it isnt settled. They are allowed to do this. When you were negotiating with the original creditor, you should have insisted upon a FULL AND FINAL settlement which is entirely different. You were, to some extent, duped, but that is the way the cookie crumbles.

Great, I have done a partial settlement in the past with an old student HSBC bank account that was sent to Capquest (this was about 4 years ago now). I agreed a settlement amount with them and the debt was cleared, all done over the phone and nothing in writing about the settlement amount. Haven't heard about a FULL AND FINAL settlement, I've just read about that now and I'm so peeved that I was wrongly advised by APEX and that I didn't look into it a bit more...!

Will speak to APEX and see what they say about the so called 'partial settlement' then. I don't feel it's very fair what has happened but hey ho!

FireWyrm wrote: »

P.S explicitly require that all further correspondence is in writing from now on, you will not entertain any communication via telephone or other means. Dont request, tell, you are a debtor, not their slave and are entitled to due consideration under the law. Dont what ever you do, sign letters with your signature since it has been known for that to magically appear on credit agreements. A letter with your name and address will be sufficient. You need to be polite but firm.

That I didn't know about not signing the letters, something I will definitely do! They (Allied) have told my work colleagues they need to speak to me urgently, but from reading what people have said they're like on the phone I'm less inclined to phone them... Will send them two letters then, a prove-it letter and harassment letter and take it from there.

P.S. Sorry about the bump, I've been watching the thread all day and driving myself potty as to what I should do..!

FireWyrm

EmJ86 wrote: »

P.S. Sorry about the bump, I've been watching the thread all day and driving myself potty as to what I should do..!

No problem at all, you are entitled to be a bit squirly...it is important to you if not the rest of the world. Answered as best I can. Be polite, but firm. I strongly advise you to spend some time researching the relevant terms I have highlighted and what exactly they mean to you. I have added some links to get you started.

I doubt you'll get far with APEX who will simply tell you, it was up to you to understand what you were agreeing to. It is a finer point of the law, but the word 'settlement' when not coupled with 'full and final' means very little. You can best protect yourself in future by learning a little about this area of the law so you are never caught out like this again. By the way, contracts are like medicine, always get a second opinion if you dont understand what you are being told. They dont necessarily have your best interests at heart.

Best of luck and Happy New Year.

EmJ86

Thanks again for the advice, I'll see how I get on with them all tomorrow. Everywhere has closed down for the holidays as ever..!

Will post back here with how I get on just to keep this updated.

Happy New Year to you too!