PCN from CEL

Teaboy01

Hope all have had a lovely xmas... Mine was until today..

So i have received a PCN from CEL as the RTK for £100. I have spent hours reading on whether to pay or not?

And now my head is spinning. Please help

The details -
Car parked in retail car park in England which now appears to have a 3.5 hour limit, occupants went to cinema followed by food. According to PCN overstayed by 20 minutes.

No signs were seen regarding the time limit on the day although they are about. It was dark and they were not spotted.

PCN arrived today 28/12/2013
PCN issue date 27/12/2013
Incident date 08/12/2013

The businesses on the retail park say they are unable to help. No proof of purchases as not many keep cinema stubs.

So my questions are

1. Should i pay the reduced amount?

2. Can i go down the route of the time frame from incident to issue to void the demand? If so how should i word it?

3. Found a response from Stroma to another post, not sure if i can use that in this situation. See below sorry for copy and paste. Should i just sent that to CEL?

Write something like this

Hello CEL

I , as the registered keeper of xxxxxx am in receipt of your notice to keeper xxxxxx dated xxxxxx , all liability to your company is denied on the following grounds

1) The registered keeper is not responsible for this charge, but the driver! As you appear not to be using pofa 2012, I suggest you take it up with that person. Please note I have no legal obligation to name that driver, even if it's myself!

2) The amount claimed is obviously an unlawful penalty, and is not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss you pretend you have.

3) You have no authority to give your unlawful invoices to vehicles, and you are invited to provide that proof.

Now as you are pursuing the wrong person, you are being put on notice that complaints are being prepared to submit to the bpa and dvla. And if you or your agents continue with this unlawful harassment I will initiate a claim against you.

This matter is now closed, any spurious claims against me will be fully defended.

Goodbye


The PCN says representations in writing only(by electronic mail or post) but i can not see an email address to use?

Thanks.

Redx

hope you read the NEWBIES - READ THIS FIRST sticky thread at the top of the forum , 4th one down ?

the stroma appeal is a good basic appeal as RK (not as driver at this stage) to the PPC CEL , BUT its wrong on point 1 in this case as it mentions the driver so isnt quite relevant

but reading your post it appears as if they missed the 14 day rule

ps:- NO , you should not pay this scam, you should soft appeal it, then go to popla if necessary

this one is more like it

Dear PPC

I am as the registered keeper of ( reg) and in receipt of your notice to keeper xxxxx dated xxxxxx, all liability to your company is denied, so as the RK I wish to invoke your appeals process on the following:

1) This charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2) You do not have the authority or permission to give these invoices to motorists
3) Your signage is inadequate, and does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
4) No grace period has been given to enter and leave the car park

You are therefore invited to cancel this charge now, or supply a popla verification code to appeal to them on rejection, where you will be asked for a detailed breakdown of the above. As you know all appeals on the points above are upheld.

Please confirm cancellation within 35 days of the above date

Faithfully
The registered keeper

Coupon-mad

CEL tickets don't allege POFA 2012 nor keeper liability now. So they only have a 'case' (pathetic and unenforceable of course) against a driver. So you appeal as keeper and you win at POPLA, as keeper! I wouldn't say this bit in bold but you could include the rest:


''1) The registered keeper is not responsible for this charge, but the driver! As you appear not to be using pofa 2012, I suggest you take it up with that person. Please note I have no legal obligation to name that driver, even if it's myself!

Redx

in that case, as ABOVE ^^^^ LOL

regards

Teaboy01

Thanks for the quick response..

Can you give me more info on this 14 day rule and should I put it in the appeal? If so how should I word it?

Has anyone got an email address for CEL as I am having trouble finding one.

Nothing on the paperwork or their contact details on their website.

Coupon-mad

There is no 14 day rule when a PPC isn't using POFA 2012 tickets. DO NOT try to use a random email address not given on paperwork. POST IT.

hoohoo

+1 and get free proof of posting.

Some explanation on the 14 day rule.

If the operator wants to invoke registered keeper liability and issue a ticket following ANPR detection, then that ticket must arrive on or before the 14th day after the incident.

Otherwise, they can only pursue the driver.

So, reinforcing what everyone says, appeal to CEL (you can use any reason really, its just to get a POPLA code) then when you get your POPLA code check back here.

Teaboy01

Thanks again..

Will have it in the post Monday with recorded delivery to be on the safe side.

Hope it does not take too long for them to respond.

Stroma

Don't send anything by recorded delivery as they won't sign for it, just get a free proof of postage from the post office

Coupon-mad

Teaboy01 wrote: »

Thanks again..

Will have it in the post Monday with recorded delivery to be on the safe side.

Hope it does not take too long for them to respond.

I agree with Stroma; an absolute no-no and not what hoohoo said.

Redx

they will probably refuse recorded delivery so send with free proof of postage , and take pictures of it all too