have we done the right thing?

fletty

We have had a pup for a month now - he's 13 weeks old and a cocker spaniel. We had set out to rescue a older dog, but he needed rescuing from the situation he was in (and I couldn't resist).
I had considered us to be expericed dog owners as we'd recently (well 2 years ago) lost our much loved terrier after 16 years.
However after crate training Jasper and him getting the hang of toileting pretty easily with only the occasional accident (which I expect he is, after all a baby still). We are been driven mad by his barking, he's fine through the day and even when he's left when we go out. But it gets to 10pm and he just goes bonkers, barking at nothing and there's no stopping him. We've tried a loud no, marbles in a bottle (which I wasn't keen on) and a can of pressurised air that worked half a dozen times but he's not bothered by it at all now.
i'm just waiting for the neighbours to complain, and its driving my OH to distraction... Anyone got any ideas?

MrsAtobe

Is it always bang on 10pm that he starts? Is there some noise or activity that he reacts to?

If it is always at the same time, I think I would be playing with him at five to, to try to distract him, or be giving him a bed time biscuit if he's food motivated, it's difficult to bark when you're eating.

It might also be worth you looking at teaching the 'speak' command, and consequently the 'quiet' command. If nothing else, the training will tire out that active little mind.

Good luck!

krlyr

As you've now seen, aversive techniques like marbles in bottles, loud noises, etc. only work temporarily - the aversive has to be scarier/worse to the dog than the cause of the barking. They also lose their effectiveness if you're not consistant - the one time you're not there, you're late or you can't be bothered stopping his barking with the aversive, he realises that his barking isn't always 'punished' at such. And the more he practices this barking, the more self rewarding it becomes. So, if, for example, he's barking at a local fox - he'll bark tonight and the trigger (e.g. people walking past, a local fox, car alarm in the distance, etc.) will go away (perhaps because of him, perhaps just because it would ave anyway) and he thinks his barking was successful. He does it again tomorrow, and again it's reinforced by the trigger stopping/going away. He'll soon 'learn' that his barking gets what he wants.

The important parts, to me, of stopping unwanted behaviours are 1) management and 2) teaching a more appropriate behaviour.

Management means changing his environment to stop him being exposed to the trigger or being able to express the behaviour. This may mean, for example, moving his crate elsewhere. Is he downstairs? You may wish to move it up into your room for a few weeks and see if this breaks the habit. Then slowly move him back downstairs - so each night, edge the crate closer to the bedroom door, then the hallway, then the bottom of the stairs, etc.
It may mean breaking the habit by taking him for a quick walk just before 10 - so he's not around to hear the trigger (if it is happening at the same time each night) and also to tire him out a bit (remember he's a growing pup though - be careful not to overdo physical exercise)

Teaching an alternative behaviour. In this case, you want quiet as opposed to barking. As suggested above, teaching him a 'speak' command and subsequently a 'quiet' command could help him to actually differentiate between the two. Many people are guilty of 'shh'ing a dog when they've never actually taught the dog what they mean - the shh works as an interupter and if the dog happens to stop what it's doing, it may seem like they understand the meaning of the word, but chances are they won't really grasp the full context of it until they're specifically taught it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1panI9_MzKQ

It may also mean giving him a smaller dinner so that you can give him a stuffed Kong at 10, as a distraction. Kongs have the benefit of taking a bit more time than a meal in a bowl, and also licking and chewing naturally releases endorphins in a dog - so this will help relax him, and the physical and mental effort required will tire him out. He can't bark whilst he's eating, and he will soon learn that 10pm means 'settle down with a Kong' time instead of 'bark at noises in the distance' time. You can eventually phase out the Kong by stuffing it with less and less food, then replacing it with maybe just a chew or a biscuit, then just a couple of treats at 'bedtime'.

fletty

thank you both. I'bit sure that its not an external trigger and its not always bang in 10 just generally around that time when the kids have gone to bed, he sleeeps in our room in a basket (he does great and doesn't even wake in the night to go out.). We walk him for 20 mins between 8 and 9 pm (he also has a half an hour to a hours walk through the day, I'm worried were over doing it?).
its as if he wants attention, but I've tried to speak calmly and distract him with a sit command and with toys but then I'm worried I'm rewarding him... It causing amazing tension between me and my husband which won't be helping if Jasper can pick up on that, it seems like were in a vicious circle -

krlyr

The general rule of thumb for exercise if 5 minutes per month old- so at 13 weeks he should be on 15 minute walks only. This rule applies more to on-lead, road walking though - off-lead play on grass gives a puppy the option to play at their own pace and is less stressful to the joints. You can tire a puppy out just as effectively with mental stimulation - so training commands and tricks for 10 minutes will be just as tiring as that half hour walk, if not moreso!
http://www.youtube.com/kikopup and http://www.youtube.com/pamelamarxsen are both fab for videos on tricks and useful commands to teach a dog, if you need ideas.

If he's having a walk just before this behaviour, I would perhaps take a closer look at that too - is there something on his walk that could be riling him up? Games like fetch are quite high adrenaline so can fill a dog with energy and they'll then find a way to release that once indoors. Or something else, e.g. seeing other dogs, may be causing a similar spike in adrenaline.

In regards to rewarding his behaviour, I would try to pre-empt him. Try to spot the subtle signs he's winding up to bark, or the usual time of day he starts, and initiate a training session prior to that.

I'd also start wearing a treat bag around the house and start rewarding him for being settled, to teach him in general that calm, quiet behaviour is rewarding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1panI9_MzKQ

paddypaws101

I can't comment on training your puppy, although I do hope he soon settles down for you.
What I would suggest is that you either drop a note through neighbours' doors or even pop round for a chat.
Letting them know that you are working on the situation and that it is (hopefully) temporary will go a long way to soothe frazzled nerves and pre-empt any complaint or falling out.